Re: archives (was The other parts of the report....
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sat, 11 September 2004 23:16 UTC
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 19:12:51 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Carl Malamud <carl@media.org>, Ole Jacobsen <ole@cisco.com>
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Cc: scott bradner <sob@harvard.edu>, ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: archives (was The other parts of the report....
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Folks, I'm not sure whether this puts me in agreement with Paul Hoffman's "re-flogging" comment or not, but The Report was presented to the community as not interacting with the Standards Process at all. Well, the issues about how to handle expired I-Ds, whether or not they expire, etc., etc., are definitely connected with the Standards Process. So we either need to redefine what the report, and discussions about the report, are about, or this discussion needs to be taken into a distinctly separate thread. Just my opinion, of course. john --On Saturday, 11 September, 2004 13:48 -0700 Carl Malamud <carl@media.org> wrote: > Ole - > > I agree that the IETF has a special responsibility to properly > present the archive ... we can't simply lay a big ftp > directory out there and make no efforts to show how a > particular file fits in context. > > On the other hand, ietf.org could certainly beg/borrow/steal > some of the work being done in places like potaroo.net and > watersprings.org. Some things that could be done include: > > 1. Add some clear text that explains the role of the i-d > historical repository > > 2. Link to previous and future versions of a draft (including > any resulting RFC) > > 3. Link to any relevant mailing list discussions > > 4. Find related drafts or place the draft in the context of a > working group > > 5. Add a very clear indication that the particular document in > question is "Expired" > > As to citing work-in-progress instead of the final standard, > well, hmmm ... if we don't have our own repository, there > isn't much we can do. On the other hand, if a > customer/reader/journalist were able to go to ietf.org and > pull up the document in question, perhaps it could be really > clear what the status is? If we want to make clear that a > document is expired, it is much better to say so rather than > pretend it doesn't exist. > > Regards, > > Carl > >> >> - Vendors are "stupid" and will claim compliance with a >> work-in-progress document instead of a final standard. This >> is "very bad" >> >> - Drafts often change along the way (including being >> completely discarded as "bad ideas") and we should discard >> such snapshots in case someone gets the wrong idea from >> reading one. >> >> Needless to say, I don't really buy these arguments. As >> someone who publishes articles where the only existing >> reference might be an ID at the time of writing, I believe >> there are better mechanisms we could use (as we do with RFCs >> and the "Obsoletes/Obsoleted by" tags). >> >> Ole >> >> >> >> Ole J. Jacobsen >> Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal >> Academic Research and Technology Initiatives, Cisco Systems >> Tel: +1 408-527-8972 GSM: +1 415-370-4628 >> E-mail: ole@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf mailing list >> Ietf@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Melinda Shore
- archives (was The other parts of the report.... scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Stewart Bryant
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Scott W Brim
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bill Manning
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bill Manning
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bill Manning
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Christian Huitema
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bill Manning
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Carl Malamud
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bill Manning
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Jeffrey Hutzelman
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Pekka Savola
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Spencer Dawkins
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Carl Malamud
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Carl Malamud
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Paul Hoffman / VPNC
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… John C Klensin
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Carl Malamud
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… scott bradner
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Kai Henningsen
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Christian Huitema
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Melinda Shore
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Melinda Shore
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bill Manning
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Joe Touch
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Theodore Ts'o
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Kai Henningsen
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Bob Braden
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Ole Jacobsen
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Eric Rosen
- RE: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Steve Crocker
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Scott W Brim
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Vernon Schryver
- Re: archives (was The other parts of the report..… Kai Henningsen