Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCWeb

Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no> Tue, 03 December 2013 13:00 UTC

Return-Path: <harald@alvestrand.no>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77C21AE139 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 05:00:15 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QV79FG8jqif1 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 05:00:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no (eikenes.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2:213:72ff:fe0b:80d8]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 685B11AE13E for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 05:00:13 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3E0539E166 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 14:00:11 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at eikenes.alvestrand.no
Received: from eikenes.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (eikenes.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GvUxTPELQ6lY for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 14:00:11 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [192.168.1.17] (unknown [188.113.88.47]) by eikenes.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61E2739E080 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 3 Dec 2013 14:00:11 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <529DD5DE.1050704@alvestrand.no>
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 14:00:14 +0100
From: Harald Alvestrand <harald@alvestrand.no>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Alternative decision process in RTCWeb
References: <DUB127-W23531D0E8B15570331DB51E0EE0@phx.gbl> <52974AA8.6080702@cisco.com> <1F79045E-8CD0-4C5D-9090-3E82853E62E9@nominum.com> <52976F56.4020706@dcrocker.net> <3CD78695-47AD-4CDF-B486-3949FFDC107B@nominum.com> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0EF1B8@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <D45703FF-109A-4FFF-92E9-1CC7767C52F7@nominum.com> <CAP+FsNc=cGhOJNTwXY1z-5ZjisOOvX=EOYEf3htGXGcWRKBf6g@mail.gmail.com> <529CF5F1.9000106@dcrocker.net>
In-Reply-To: <529CF5F1.9000106@dcrocker.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2013 13:00:15 -0000

On 12/02/2013 10:04 PM, Dave Crocker wrote:
> On 11/29/2013 12:22 AM, Roberto Peon wrote:
>> The only reason to specify a must-implement is to increase interop; if
>> mandating a codec does not increase the amount of interop, why do it?
>
>
> If the base specification does not provide enough information for 
> basic interoperability, what is the benefit in standardizing it?
>
> An alternative that I believe has already been mentioned is to 
> standardize /both/, but separately.
>
> Under two different names, which then lets the market decide on 
> whether either will succeed.
>
> Letting the market decide amongst competing choices used to be 
> something the IETF did more commonly.  One of the more colorful 
> examples was SNMP vs. CMOT.

I prefer to remember (not fondly) SNMPv2U vs SNMPv2*.

What the market told us at that time, *very* loudly, was that there 
would be no massive deployment of a properly secured version of SNMP 
until the IETF reached a decision.

The IETF eventually reached a decision (SNMPv3). I don't know if it 
eventually mattered that much; SNMP's grand ambitions had been overtaken 
by events.