Re: Ombudsteam update

Lloyd Wood <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk> Tue, 22 January 2019 08:35 UTC

Return-Path: <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE13E12DF72 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 00:35:41 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yahoo.co.uk
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3zn94jODXEKX for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 00:35:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from sonic313-23.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic313-23.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.190]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E646712DF71 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 00:35:39 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s2048; t=1548146138; bh=tqsxt4MO99/apBPI2Aza1VvgHIQnZ9SC0Gd9qyNOsxE=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=V9hoJol4oJ7KE9jjDsJjRirpyyl/M7KC9rMCLRNep3cx3wmBCzRka4K9mh95mBXfaKBoe1heD4a/la1DwoYk8MAWoF1EQmdZuLo9SnAJHEwf110aH8OOQg8ZgEgdjTONHWx5bC8qiRiFq5e9TFZ/C21fmPF6cnD+MNUt890brNgQdvGYCqZQCzUZ53KN0JiizW+rIniJfEm6mmwNM0umvvZpo1DmuSUG5RLolgJQhcD5bjdM4xsYD2mFAYpUxmfJG1MZr9hDoFN+rRvaraATsOeyW0YRHUAHCemvlvHtumUhrhtG8aU7H94l008AggrQu8ZVSMiTwPDul/8z2SV5Pw==
X-YMail-OSG: S_tn4NQVM1kUNCtOkrfEFwy4Jjo3Cs5vXkso68kTnKXKEGHfpF_Abzl9gJMMoUP QUx4h7xrAR1m8ml_XxHmpkeSo2LRJLhPv74GJo4l_MAyVnMyran5yeBtnocLZN8UPFrYhrTCTUtd fC63sp8HuD6_eYy7LML_Jyw4HJAaKZkEINLcLIENLDej.YMzgAm4z6R4GFXe.zlh99e9ffhcwqdE CaMjSBmMT1_RBeF_8mBdEmnYkuuKKcqVS_Ecs.iQJl7IAG2RJjlMf.5g96rPopoEW_GUFzbd8n8s E4yyLYp1zty6FbqaDIkJHAhqjLKjqSVQ.LxKA0HofK0XCuRjDahSZTdbLRlCRNovqEWYRWnFy8mi yMZ5POvxvfPoOxEzaQfBI7SJTuaHrHZA2KxSO5i88UosX7Mi407wT0oGaub5sEHmtFFBUildxgUL k6Klc1BnSYlAZ8y8BebEQ2GrbGeqIUcPjN2tuSYBlf3CeRHChy13Ur9j7Z9Pmlo932ggxm32RP_p OT6L3lwiaxC08LDJSuE.AecAYfARrvhrCVtv7Gz.rcQEpwfJeDUbyYx6fiI1Q86DzCRJA9RpXjq8 7GcyRjJAYlzAoIOt_d0vpSbUn_tSyPDnkiXIRbHaSXPcFyhWiHIKdlWZTrqFU0Jnxq_2H8ty8A2a vEc7EYrHv4NMjY728MSmB9nr5UCbXwxundel27iEjZ1ncoO48QkgmlE6ZDa2x1n72DN89oARnQFI FVxW3zmkUHJhcfyNEYxevb4_d1rTR.xtL7.a1_7ZYCPt0myV6ApBExaLh88NUiILF6JPpydu62hR q4Gu7qQKPgXegIJrhjA7nA8wEUo.5sJqpQNKR0VgkKK9.dReMn39_Iq0yWF0gbKO2RO.JwHQmHSj gJ7QVAstAKRs.umAXf6GOncgJnE_lFG5ol04yJ0vUrKlmlpZnwx0VYRUB5F8gZCt0AtQXiKCkh8B TMN4W.ch.8ldPQHzEB0FM0omrmkDd..ajrUG90svEAHOAA1ZpFRjCDnAzOBlgDJcYJlHENNZhlWZ NY51zi_k5oBxQKsJZO5.ajyoh4baRzPvfxkYN3MTyUWgIYd8AsagxIyL2MHC4CGa25BIE9HVUlLX zRztyhAV0qq_Lwv.a
Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:35:38 +0000
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:25:35 +0000 (UTC)
From: Lloyd Wood <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: Lloyd Wood <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
Cc: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, Ombudsteam <ombudsteam@ietf.org>, ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <1350007800.2431429.1548145535081@mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <AAE6C5D5-4272-4FE9-8F93-AE4B519C5C60@gmail.com>
References: <82BCE48D-9B20-4819-82A0-BD8378AFBED5@ietf.org> <CADnDZ8_6SbSe3QP2FkWjW_fkDehiVUt9HPPAFyF1itz8ZfyBBA@mail.gmail.com> <CAP8yD=vAk1+pkPY9LQktV6mHKYC=uWRreV513W2rPj6U=jgtzg@mail.gmail.com> <CADnDZ88m51dADnQLkOMcLVtJY=3kOwGzCRFPu9YZJ9THednAHA@mail.gmail.com> <CAP8yD=uhp-GKoTg9BmO7vYAErDA2jKWF8uFjUV=_gd1Jd28wog@mail.gmail.com> <CADnDZ8875inB-tdadtVajYBJiZC-Tu++j+GYPUz=pEiNvGqcTw@mail.gmail.com> <AAE6C5D5-4272-4FE9-8F93-AE4B519C5C60@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ombudsteam update
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2431428_512683460.1548145535077"
X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13016 YahooMailNeo Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:64.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/I2Dp86OdTxhJmZPDAiOz5agKR4s>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2019 08:35:42 -0000

"Fear, uncertainty and doubt" is an informal industry expressionunfamiliar to AB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

just as April Fools' Day was
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/DBjxWy7JPiJHsENop5A2rnHzuqU
https://www.mhonarc.org/archive/html/ietf/2013-04/msg00097.html

this is a cultural misunderstanding, mostly, but thesecultural misunderstandings do seem to tend to escalate.

L. Lloyd Wood lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk http://about.me/lloydwood

      From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>;
 To: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>; 
Cc: IESG <iesg@ietf.org>;; Ombudsteam <ombudsteam@ietf.org>;; ietf <ietf@ietf.org>;
 Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2019, 2:02
 Subject: Re: Ombudsteam update
   
Hi AB,

On Jan 18, 2019, at 1:18 AM, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>; wrote:


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 8:09 PM Allison Mankin <allison.mankin@gmail.com>; wrote:

Hi, Abdussalam,
You are right, I misread the date on the mail when I was writing yesterday (I have a kind of calendar dyslexia).   I too have that mail, but what I wrote yesterday is still the case.  

Please let ombudteam know (adding back ombudsteam to this email) if you have a continuing issue, as my mail said yesterday.

Yes I have a continuing issues, and the ombudsteam will be informed in the coming days, however, the biggest problem/issue was the IPWAVE AD and chair MUST follow up to make discussions easy and productive.

For people who do not know the context, this was AB’s mail
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/8aH6ikp6mIJ5BMIJApx6PqqyzPg
This was Tony Li’s mail that AB was responding to
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/iGhHmoJy2Ien_iyoOgd6I5gXzWM

 My formal public message was ignored by IETF AD office

????. I did respond on list to your message with my view
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/its/Lb84WgER7edzsJhp5cyjhxoYaxk

, then formal private message ignored by ombudsteam, so I was powerless. 

I am not privy to the workings of the ombudsteam. I will let them respond to this.

It is strange that it is easy of IETF-members/selected-members to ignore/drop formal emails/messages/letters/requests in IETF/IESG. 

Once you escalated the message to the ombudsteam, it is for the ombudsteam to judge. If there were specific actions for the ipwave chairs or the IESG I am assuming we would have heard from the ombudsteam.
ThanksSuresh