RE: several messages

There is no doubt that email addresses are indeed sticky for most people.
However as someone who works for a mid to large ISP, I can say with
confidence that using 'reputable' DNSBL's save money for the ISP and the
customer as well.

To give an example; previous to our Spamhaus deployment we were processing
over 90M msg per day. After deploying SBL alone that dropped to 10M! This
resulted in not having to buy hundreds of servers and terabytes of disk. If
we had not implemented DNSBLs we would have to raise our costs to the
subscriber to cover the capital expenditure.

Our FP complaints from our subscribers was less than 10 calls in the first
six months. After modifying our DSN's to provide clear language to senders
why we did not accept their message, and giving them a link to resolve the
issue on their own, the complaints from customers disappeared.

So yes, you will always have someone that will be affected. It is my belief
(solely) that mail system managers need to take responsibility for what
flows through their systems. If your users are not doing their due
diligence to keep their PCs from becoming zombies, you as the system
manager need to protect your systems, so you can ensure that everyone can
use them. 

My $.02

Regards,
Anthony

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 06:43:17 -0800, "Hallam-Baker, Phillip"
<pbaker@verisign.com> wrote:
> This is a somewhat silly discussion, pretty much the ONLY real reason to
> use your own domain rather than a gmail or aol or whatever is precisely
the
> fact that switching costs are high.
>  
> And the real problem is not gmail.com but comcast.net. If access to the
> email address requires continuation of an ISP service the switching cost
> issue bcomes a very real problem. Even more so if the ISP decides to
rename
> itself - as mine has three times.
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: ietf-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of David Morris
> Sent: Thu 11/13/2008 12:02 AM
> To: Al Iverson
> Cc: ietf@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: several messages
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Al Iverson wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 11:37 PM, David Morris <dwm@xpasc.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Al Iverson wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 11:08 PM, David Morris <dwm@xpasc.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In the end, walking isn't a viable alternative.
>> >>
>> >> Because it's so hard to open a Gmail account? I think your thinking
>> >> here is about two generations out of date. Back in 1995 when we each
>> >> had our one dialup account, and webmail was much less common and
>> >> acceptable, your point would have been more valid.
>> >
>> > C'mon ... my example contractor has printed collateral, web pages,
> etc.
>> > all with his email address. Changing an email address is non-trivial
> for
>> > folks who don't have any need to register their own domain name. Even
>> > those who have a web serving domain often have no business need for
>> > email.
>>
>> The professional who has printed their AOL.com email address on their
>> business card has problems that are far greater than, and not unique
>> to, an ISP's use of DNSBLs.
> 
> I never said they used aol.com ... only that it was a major ISP. Both
that
> ISP and aol *HAVE* worked to deal with issues I've had. Other ISPs have
> not. It was still a waste of my time.
> 
> My point is that it is difficult to change email addresses because there
> are lots of references which have value. Business cards are one example.
> All other business printed materials are another. Every customer's mail
> folders are another.
> 
> Simply walking from an ISP isn't an easy choice. This is particularily
> true for folks for home computer technology is simply a tool they use to
> communicate. This general issue is well enough understood that the FCC
> forced phone companies and cellular carriers to provide number
portability
> to insure folks with an investment in their phone number could take
> advantage of competition.
> 
> Dave Morris
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf mailing list
> Ietf@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

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