Re: Time to kill layer 2

<chopps@chopps.org> Thu, 14 April 2016 14:15 UTC

Return-Path: <chopps@chopps.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BAA712D5D1 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:15:20 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.896
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.996] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GkBW7cS8CIGQ for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:15:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CC512D5A9 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tops.chopps.org (24-247-68-31.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com [24.247.68.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D9E4460D08; Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:15:17 +0000 (UTC)
References: <CAMm+Lwg-HTYCv2pGt=SP2+Xjoko6GcJ73kVzqXC1LBTOMDKV_A@mail.gmail.com>
User-agent: mu4e 0.9.16; emacs 24.5.1
From: chopps@chopps.org
To: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>
Subject: Re: Time to kill layer 2
In-reply-to: <CAMm+Lwg-HTYCv2pGt=SP2+Xjoko6GcJ73kVzqXC1LBTOMDKV_A@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 10:15:16 -0400
Message-ID: <87shyol1jf.fsf@tops.chopps.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/I_x9tabnodmVoIGn_pC-8aUYgg8>
Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 14:15:20 -0000

Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com> writes:

> This morning I spent an hour debugging the network to print out two
> class projects that were due. Some points:
>
> 1) My ability to debug the network is better than 99% of the population
> 2) The interaction of Bonjour, DHCP and auto power saving is unfortunate
> 3) Things should still work after I have been away for a week
> 4) If vendors want to be selling all that IoT gear, they have to solve
> these issues.
>
> 5) I want someone to blame. Right now when the network doesn't work, I
> don't know who is the cause. I want one point of contact. Whoever is
> that point of contact will get most of my networking money.

...

> One of the reasons that IP won against OSI was that it was simpler.
> Applications ran on top of the IP layer with only TCP inbetween. Of
> course these days we do have a Presentation layer, Web Services run on
> HTTP. But unlike the OSI presentation layer, ours does not introduce
> extra moving parts.

The funny thing about mentioning OSI here is that it would probably be
very easy indeed to triage your network issue if your hosts were running
ES-IS, and your routers IS-IS. You could plug into IS-IS and see
everything. :)

Thanks,
Chris.