Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm
Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Sat, 11 August 2012 15:11 UTC
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Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 08:11:14 -0700
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
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Subject: Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm
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On 8/11/2012 7:56 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > I don't think the facts support "TCP/IP in the > market killed OSI" except in a vary narrow sense. It would be > much more accurate to say that OSI self-destructed and the > TCP/IP was then available as a working technology that satisfied > most of the relevant requirements. Not really. In much of the world, OSI created the market demand for open systems. And yes, TCP/IP filled it when OSI couldn't. (In the late 80s, 25% of my TCP/IP product revenue was from Europe, including the IT department at ISO...) However had there been no TCP/IP, the OSI folks would have had to find a way to make their stuff work. While we like to think that original design decisions for OSI are what killed it, there's plenty of experience showing that really bad designs can be made viable, given enough effort.[1] The underlying problems with OSI design made success for OSI massively more difficult. However failure would not have been allowed had they been the only game in town. The presence of a viable and -- ahem -- superior alternative to OSI is what finally killed it, by diverting market interest to the alternative. d/ [1] The IETF-based characterization of this was by Marshall Rose: With enough thrust, pigs /can/ fly. -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
- Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm IETF Chair
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm SM
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Adrian Farrel
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Bob Hinden
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Eric Burger
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: [IAB] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Para… Eggert, Lars
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Alessandro Vesely
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm SM
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Stephen Farrell
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm GTW
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Dave Crocker
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Noel Chiappa
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm John C Klensin
- RE: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Paul Hoffman
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm SM
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Michael Tuexen
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Yoav Nir
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Yoav Nir
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Noel Chiappa
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Scott O Bradner
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Carsten Bormann
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Allison Mankin
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Scott O Bradner
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm SM
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Yoav Nir
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Bert Wijnen (IETF)
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm ALAIN AINA
- Re: [iucg] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Par… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [IAB] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Para… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [iucg] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Par… John C Klensin
- Re: [iucg] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Par… Eric Burger
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Eliot Lear
- Re: [iucg] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Par… ALAIN AINA
- Re: [iucg] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Par… t.p.
- Re: [iucg] Last Call: Modern Global Standards Par… John C Klensin
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm GTW
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm Jonne.Soininen
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm IETF Chair
- Re: Last Call: Modern Global Standards Paradigm IETF Chair