Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Thu, 12 May 2011 19:21 UTC
Return-Path: <john-ietf@jck.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F91CE0706 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 May 2011 12:21:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OqnX9F5WTiGm for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 May 2011 12:21:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from bs.jck.com (ns.jck.com [209.187.148.211]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61ABFE0718 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 May 2011 12:21:14 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=localhost) by bs.jck.com with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1QKbRb-000DBJ-GA; Thu, 12 May 2011 15:21:07 -0400
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 15:21:06 -0400
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>, Steven Bellovin <smb@cs.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793
Message-ID: <E6D68FD7BEC69737D94EEC50@PST.JCK.COM>
In-Reply-To: <4DCC01A8.7000609@isi.edu>
References: <4DC71403.9010505@isi.edu> <4DC9ACA3.7030808@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> <C5EDCF1C-E0EA-43A7-B1C4-FFC399F52DBF@cs.columbia.edu> <4B943854EB9CB71C682ABB89@PST.JCK.COM> <640BF405-1E60-444B-B085-49CE2FE69513@cs.columbia.edu> <4DCC01A8.7000609@isi.edu>
X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Cc: IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 19:21:15 -0000
--On Thursday, May 12, 2011 08:50 -0700 Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> wrote: >> My comment was in reply to Masataka Ohta's note saying that he >> often evades the pricing on things like IEEE or ACM pappers >> by finding free ones online. That looks like it won't be >> possible going forward. > > Current IEEE policy continues to allow authors to post the > latest update prior to IEEE publication on their home site, > with proper copyright notice and a link to the IEEE copy. > > I.e., authors can currently post the last revision before IEEE > formatting with IEEE logos for free. Joe, A different version of the point I was trying to make is that any body that depends on publication revenues, special subscriptions, or memberships and membership privileges to support its work has to define a boundary that preserves some value in those revenue sources. Some of us may think that they are going to need to find a new business model for their activities, but that is really irrelevant to the present conversation. It seems to me that the line IEEE is trying to draw is a reasonable one given their problem and, modulo trying to preserve something for which to charge, not that much different from ours. In many situations, the net effect is that, if I'm interested in the content or substance of a given article, the "approved submission" version should be more than sufficient. If I need to quote exactly from it, reference material by page number, etc., I need to get my hands on the final published version and someone may have to pay IEEE for that. Other than being careful about what versions of IEEE documents are referenced normatively in RFCs (so that people are expected to read and understand the referenced documents to implement the RFC), it still doesn't seem to me that IEEE's policies, or what documents can be found where and at what prices, are an IETF problem. john john
- How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Braden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 todd glassey
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 todd glassey
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yoav Nir
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John R. Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steven Bellovin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Mark Nottingham
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Ole Jacobsen
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Michel Py
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Stefan Winter
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Eric Burger
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Worley, Dale R (Dale)
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Braden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Marshall Eubanks
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Doug Barton
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steve Crocker
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Dave Crocker
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Ross Callon
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Pekka Savola
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Julian Reschke
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 J.D. Falk
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… John Levine
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Paul Hoffman
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Klaas Wierenga
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Thomas Dreibholz
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Eric Burger
- Re: Google Scholar, was How to pay $47 for a copy… Harald Alvestrand
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Masataka Ohta
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Eric Burger
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Masataka Ohta
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Masataka Ohta
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yoav Nir
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yaakov Stein
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Yaakov Stein
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Stephane Bortzmeyer
- RE: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John R. Levine
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Florian Weimer
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steven Bellovin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Joe Touch
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 SM
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steven Bellovin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Joe Touch
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Joe Touch
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Hinden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 John C Klensin
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Florian Weimer
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Bob Hinden
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Steve Crocker
- Re: How to pay $47 for a copy of RFC 793 Julian Reschke
- The XML page cannot be displayed t.petch
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Julian Reschke
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Simon Perreault
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Marc Manthey
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed t.petch
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Doug Barton
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed t.petch
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Julian Reschke
- Re: The XML page cannot be displayed Simon Perreault