Re: Planned experiment: A new mailing list for last-call discussions

Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> Thu, 12 September 2019 22:26 UTC

Return-Path: <tpauly@apple.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51BCE1200A3 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.001
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VV12gaFPHK5O for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com (nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com [17.151.62.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BD0B120058 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x8CMQWK0032664; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:46 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=sender : content-type : mime-version : subject : from : in-reply-to : date : cc : content-transfer-encoding : message-id : references : to; s=20180706; bh=bFED7QvY2inensJoo3S1hGv6gc/efK4wnSod61/QMcw=; b=Ld7SzI6nRLOf89AqB3xFAORdOM0L1yYYtn42zKK2wAHlz3uqlgRZNpLltZqa5WnSy9PM pmeqX+W6vQ7BqrjGS2gp4LeKlKPrUxuALrv0lgIbFX5GxgEO/4PfRgwn9B5ifQ6J4asd cN7ZzVADv56cohqunhB0f5r//ipWakhd1tdMgTCrnq/Zs48nAMgYjs/yvm/o8iWrVJvY BPapBTmdICaaEh6I8qmQfArC0X+slbUy6TxrXEGTibUGd8O2qP7+vkesjTF+IdFZVnsO B5N1LkoWmsgakj31Xnnlkr6jLln+4F7xX8bZQO2hW8T6oKKEa8XcZ+7n+6mUNEPKwKLi iA==
Received: from ma1-mtap-s02.corp.apple.com (ma1-mtap-s02.corp.apple.com [17.40.76.6]) by nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com with ESMTP id 2uytcwwc85-25 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:45 -0700
Received: from nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com [17.128.115.155]) by ma1-mtap-s02.corp.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.4.20190507 64bit (built May 7 2019)) with ESMTPS id <0PXQ000PDP0GDG80@ma1-mtap-s02.corp.apple.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from process_milters-daemon.nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com by nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.4.20190507 64bit (built May 7 2019)) id <0PXQ00800OZ7Q900@nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:43 -0700 (PDT)
X-Va-A:
X-Va-T-CD: 4ae21cf789a77d0c8b0d0dc9906e1f02
X-Va-E-CD: 002a28559c77673cf341f703d0dedf40
X-Va-R-CD: d74949eb5d8f7e167b41ff54a0a22155
X-Va-CD: 0
X-Va-ID: 94a0e77d-d31d-4811-8083-c82fdd455cb3
X-V-A:
X-V-T-CD: 4ae21cf789a77d0c8b0d0dc9906e1f02
X-V-E-CD: 002a28559c77673cf341f703d0dedf40
X-V-R-CD: d74949eb5d8f7e167b41ff54a0a22155
X-V-CD: 0
X-V-ID: acef2e18-d0c2-4d77-81cb-7f07d96ee406
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:,, definitions=2019-09-12_12:,, signatures=0
Received: from [17.234.125.97] by nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.0.2.4.20190507 64bit (built May 7 2019)) with ESMTPSA id <0PXQ00JT3P049960@nwk-mmpp-sz11.apple.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:29 -0700 (PDT)
Sender: tpauly@apple.com
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.2\))
Subject: Re: Planned experiment: A new mailing list for last-call discussions
From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
In-reply-to: <CALaySJKvdoy9MtzHMwq-Ew-EJoUs0V8t+y01FL-E5r3xdyRemQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 15:26:20 -0700
Cc: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Message-id: <817968A7-CBBC-4B87-B57B-AB4649463140@apple.com>
References: <CALaySJKvdoy9MtzHMwq-Ew-EJoUs0V8t+y01FL-E5r3xdyRemQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.2)
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-09-12_12:, , signatures=0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/KFvmikNb4jGmZcrPBFt6e-HZLBg>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 22:26:49 -0000

+1, this will be a useful experiment!

—Tommy

> On Sep 12, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>; wrote:
> 
> As we discussed in the plenary session at IETF 105 in Montréal, some
> community members have suggested moving document last-call discussions
> onto a dedicated "last-call" mailing list, and off of the general
> <ietf@ietf.org>; list.  The latter is a high-volume list with a lot of
> varied discussion, and some think that it would be useful to separate
> the general discussion from the last-call discussion, to allow people
> to choose which discussions (or both) to follow.  In the IETF 105
> plenary, support was expressed for that separation.
> 
> The IESG agrees, and wants to try an experiment to that end.  We
> propose to create <last-call@ietf.org>; and to direct last-call
> comments and discussions there (the last-call announcements would
> still go to <ietf-announce@ietf.org>;, with "reply-to" set to the new
> list).  That list would be monitored by volunteers recruited by the
> IETF Chair, and digressions would be nudged back to <ietf@ietf.org>;,
> while we would ask people having last-call discussions on this list to
> please move them to the new list.  We would get the tools team
> involved so that the distribution lists for directorate and
> review-team reviews would be updated appropriately.
> 
> Our plan is to create the new list and pre-subscribe everyone who is
> subscribed to <ietf@ietf.org>; at that time.  Of course, anyone could
> unsubscribe to either or both lists immediately or later, but we think
> that doing it this way would minimize the likelihood that people would
> miss important stuff because of the move, and folks can choose what
> they prefer from there.
> 
> After six months, we would do an initial evaluation, including getting
> feedback from the community, to see how the experiment is working.  If
> it seems worth continuing we would do so, and at a point that the
> community decides that the experiment is a success (should it so
> decide), we would start an update to BCP 45 to formally move the
> location for last-call discussions, and we would update the 2007 IESG
> Statement on Last Call Guidance.
> 
> We invite comments, here, on this plan, by the end of September. As I
> say above, we've heard support from the community for the general
> idea, and we'd like to make sure this direction is what the community
> wants.
> 
> Barry, for the IESG
>