Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities

JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Mon, 03 April 2017 22:11 UTC

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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 00:11:15 +0200
Subject: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <A9B4DE68-C098-42A3-B135-AE93BDF12087@consulintel.es>
Thread-Topic: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
References: <149096990336.4276.3480662759931758139.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <9fee9874-1306-07a2-a84a-4e09381a5336@cisco.com> <E67FDB14-9895-48E0-A334-167172D322DB@nohats.ca> <20170403152624.GA11714@gsp.org> <93404c29-78ba-ff9b-9170-f5f2a5389a31@gmail.com> <E068F01A-B720-4E7A-A60F-AA5BDA22D535@consulintel.es> <ac736542-2394-feb0-3aaa-c75f15162f5f@huitema.net> <B223FC55-A82E-4F3E-A02E-92061A04FD66@consulintel.es> <8db4104e-6ce4-9748-a040-7b52dae7196f@gmail.com>
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Hi Brian,

I was considering the EU “borders” to outside-EU, not internal among EU countries.

When I come back from US, Latin America, Africa, AP, to the EU, I feel much safer than when I go to US.

When I travel to *ANY* region or country in the world, except US, I feel very safe.

And is not just how I feel, but how I see people coming to EU feels relatively safe (of course unless they aren’t trying to bypass immigration laws).

I feel each time less and less safe going to US and I see people from other regions outside EU, even people from Canada, feeling unsafe as well.

It is a matter of facts and stats, despite whatever laws say, despite what are the human rights, privacy rights, etc., definitively, US reputation for any non-US citizen is going darker and darker.

I need to see if I still feel safe when traveling to UK next time … after Brexit gets completed.

Regards,
Jordi
 

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organización: University of Auckland
Responder a: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Fecha: lunes, 3 de abril de 2017, 23:51
Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
Asunto: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities

    Jordi,
    
    It won't happen when travelling between two "Schengen" countries, I suppose.
    But when you enter or leave the Schengen zone, you go through an immigration
    checkpoint.
    
    That's a more important distinction than EU/non-EU in this particular case.
    
        Brian
    On 04/04/2017 05:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    > I think the “border” line between what is being done in EU and US is that in EU this is only done under a terrorism classification ?
    > 
    > I can ask about this to a Spanish State Lawyer that I will be able to talk at the end of the week …
    > 
    > I knew about the UK case, but I no longer consider UK part of the EU, never has been “totally”, and clearly it should be considered also when we plan new meetings.
    > 
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    >  
    > 
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>
    > Responder a: <huitema@huitema.net>
    > Fecha: lunes, 3 de abril de 2017, 19:32
    > Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
    > Asunto: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
    > 
    >     
    >     
    >     On 4/3/2017 9:39 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    >     > I’m not convinced (despite laws may say it), if computer inspection, even “temporal” confiscation, is being used in EU. At least I never heard about that, and even less in my own country, though I may be missing cases in other EU countries.
    >     You are indeed missing something.
    >     
    >     Here is one pretty famous case, happened in Heathrow: Greenwald's
    >     partner detained, thumb drives confiscated.
    >     http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/08/19/snowden-documents-seized-heathrow-intimidation-says-greenwald-his-partner-detained
    >     
    >     Here is a clip about Canada's refusal to disclose laptop search policy:
    >     http://boingboing.net/2010/02/09/canadian-customs-ref.html
    >     
    >     Article 60 of French custom code authorizes inspection of anything you
    >     carry, can be interpreted as authorizing search of laptops or cell phones:
    >     https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=AA678D3E2AC873493D4025F33776856A.tpdila20v_2?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006138841&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006071570&dateTexte=20130315
    >     
    >     Various European countries, including the UK and France, have passed
    >     inquisitive snooping laws. Maybe they are less visible than what happens
    >     in the US, but I would not hold my breath...
    >     
    >     -- Christian Huitema
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     >
    >     > Definitively if that happens to me in EU, I will not provide passwords even if I don’t have anything to hide, but just because customer’s info confidentiality, signed NDAs, etc. I don’t think that will bring me to the jail. However, in US, detention is a fact, right?
    >     >
    >     > Regards,
    >     > Jordi
    >     >  
    >     >
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    > 
    > 
    > 
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    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    
    
    



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