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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 00:11:15 +0200
Subject: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
To: <ietf@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <A9B4DE68-C098-42A3-B135-AE93BDF12087@consulintel.es>
Thread-Topic: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
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 <93404c29-78ba-ff9b-9170-f5f2a5389a31@gmail.com>
 <E068F01A-B720-4E7A-A60F-AA5BDA22D535@consulintel.es>
 <ac736542-2394-feb0-3aaa-c75f15162f5f@huitema.net>
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Hi Brian,

I was considering the EU =E2=80=9Cborders=E2=80=9D to outside-EU, not inter=
nal among EU countries.

When I come back from US, Latin America, Africa, AP, to the EU, I feel much=
 safer than when I go to US.

When I travel to *ANY* region or country in the world, except US, I feel ve=
ry safe.

And is not just how I feel, but how I see people coming to EU feels relativ=
ely safe (of course unless they aren=E2=80=99t trying to bypass immigration=
 laws).

I feel each time less and less safe going to US and I see people from other=
 regions outside EU, even people from Canada, feeling unsafe as well.

It is a matter of facts and stats, despite whatever laws say, despite what =
are the human rights, privacy rights, etc., definitively, US reputation for=
 any non-US citizen is going darker and darker.

I need to see if I still feel safe when traveling to UK next time =E2=80=A6=
 after Brexit gets completed.

Regards,
Jordi
=20

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.ca=
rpenter@gmail.com>
Organizaci=C3=B3n: University of Auckland
Responder a: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Fecha: lunes, 3 de abril de 2017, 23:51
Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
Asunto: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities

    Jordi,
   =20
    It won't happen when travelling between two "Schengen" countries, I sup=
pose.
    But when you enter or leave the Schengen zone, you go through an immigr=
ation
    checkpoint.
   =20
    That's a more important distinction than EU/non-EU in this particular c=
ase.
   =20
        Brian
    On 04/04/2017 05:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    > I think the =E2=80=9Cborder=E2=80=9D line between what is being done =
in EU and US is that in EU this is only done under a terrorism classificati=
on ?
    >=20
    > I can ask about this to a Spanish State Lawyer that I will be able to=
 talk at the end of the week =E2=80=A6
    >=20
    > I knew about the UK case, but I no longer consider UK part of the EU,=
 never has been =E2=80=9Ctotally=E2=80=9D, and clearly it should be conside=
red also when we plan new meetings.
    >=20
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    > =20
    >=20
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Christian Huitema <huit=
ema@huitema.net>
    > Responder a: <huitema@huitema.net>
    > Fecha: lunes, 3 de abril de 2017, 19:32
    > Para: <ietf@ietf.org>
    > Asunto: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
    >=20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >     On 4/3/2017 9:39 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    >     > I=E2=80=99m not convinced (despite laws may say it), if compute=
r inspection, even =E2=80=9Ctemporal=E2=80=9D confiscation, is being used i=
n EU. At least I never heard about that, and even less in my own country, t=
hough I may be missing cases in other EU countries.
    >     You are indeed missing something.
    >    =20
    >     Here is one pretty famous case, happened in Heathrow: Greenwald's
    >     partner detained, thumb drives confiscated.
    >     http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/08/19/snowden-documents-seized-h=
eathrow-intimidation-says-greenwald-his-partner-detained
    >    =20
    >     Here is a clip about Canada's refusal to disclose laptop search p=
olicy:
    >     http://boingboing.net/2010/02/09/canadian-customs-ref.html
    >    =20
    >     Article 60 of French custom code authorizes inspection of anythin=
g you
    >     carry, can be interpreted as authorizing search of laptops or cel=
l phones:
    >     https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=3DAA678D3=
E2AC873493D4025F33776856A.tpdila20v_2?idSectionTA=3DLEGISCTA000006138841&ci=
dTexte=3DLEGITEXT000006071570&dateTexte=3D20130315
    >    =20
    >     Various European countries, including the UK and France, have pas=
sed
    >     inquisitive snooping laws. Maybe they are less visible than what =
happens
    >     in the US, but I would not hold my breath...
    >    =20
    >     -- Christian Huitema
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >     >
    >     > Definitively if that happens to me in EU, I will not provide pa=
sswords even if I don=E2=80=99t have anything to hide, but just because cus=
tomer=E2=80=99s info confidentiality, signed NDAs, etc. I don=E2=80=99t thi=
nk that will bring me to the jail. However, in US, detention is a fact, rig=
ht?
    >     >
    >     > Regards,
    >     > Jordi
    >     > =20
    >     >
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >    =20
    >=20
    >=20
    >=20
    > **********************************************
    > IPv4 is over
    > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
    > http://www.consulintel.es
    > The IPv6 Company
    >=20
    > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged =
or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the indiv=
idual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that a=
ny disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this informa=
tion, including attached files, is prohibited.
    >=20
    >=20
    >=20
    >=20
   =20
   =20
   =20



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.consulintel.es
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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con=
fidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(=
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closure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, =
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