Subject: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2017 00:11:15 +0200
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>

Hi Brian,

I was considering the EU “borders” to outside-EU, not internal among EU countries.

When I come back from US, Latin America, Africa, AP, to the EU, I feel much safer than when I go to US.

When I travel to *ANY* region or country in the world, except US, I feel very safe.

And is not just how I feel, but how I see people coming to EU feels relatively safe (of course unless they aren’t trying to bypass immigration laws).

I feel each time less and less safe going to US and I see people from other regions outside EU, even people from Canada, feeling unsafe as well.

It is a matter of facts and stats, despite whatever laws say, despite what are the human rights, privacy rights, etc., definitively, US reputation for any non-US citizen is going darker and darker.

I need to see if I still feel safe when traveling to UK next time … after Brexit gets completed.

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: ietf <[email-masked]> en nombre de Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Organización: University of Auckland
Responder a: <[email-masked]>
Fecha: lunes, 3 de abril de 2017, 23:51
Para: <[email-masked]>
Asunto: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities

    Jordi,
    
    It won't happen when travelling between two "Schengen" countries, I suppose.
    But when you enter or leave the Schengen zone, you go through an immigration
    checkpoint.
    
    That's a more important distinction than EU/non-EU in this particular case.
    
        Brian
    On 04/04/2017 05:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    > I think the “border” line between what is being done in EU and US is that in EU this is only done under a terrorism classification ?
    > 
    > I can ask about this to a Spanish State Lawyer that I will be able to talk at the end of the week …
    > 
    > I knew about the UK case, but I no longer consider UK part of the EU, never has been “totally”, and clearly it should be considered also when we plan new meetings.
    > 
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    >  
    > 
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: ietf <[email-masked]> en nombre de Christian Huitema <[email-masked]>
    > Responder a: <[email-masked]>
    > Fecha: lunes, 3 de abril de 2017, 19:32
    > Para: <[email-masked]>
    > Asunto: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities
    > 
    >     
    >     
    >     On 4/3/2017 9:39 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
    >     > I’m not convinced (despite laws may say it), if computer inspection, even “temporal” confiscation, is being used in EU. At least I never heard about that, and even less in my own country, though I may be missing cases in other EU countries.
    >     You are indeed missing something.
    >     
    >     Here is one pretty famous case, happened in Heathrow: Greenwald's
    >     partner detained, thumb drives confiscated.
    >     http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/08/19/snowden-documents-seized-heathrow-intimidation-says-greenwald-his-partner-detained
    >     
    >     Here is a clip about Canada's refusal to disclose laptop search policy:
    >     http://boingboing.net/2010/02/09/canadian-customs-ref.html
    >     
    >     Article 60 of French custom code authorizes inspection of anything you
    >     carry, can be interpreted as authorizing search of laptops or cell phones:
    >     https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do;jsessionid=AA678D3E2AC873493D4025F33776856A.tpdila20v_2?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000006138841&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006071570&dateTexte=20130315
    >     
    >     Various European countries, including the UK and France, have passed
    >     inquisitive snooping laws. Maybe they are less visible than what happens
    >     in the US, but I would not hold my breath...
    >     
    >     -- Christian Huitema
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     >
    >     > Definitively if that happens to me in EU, I will not provide passwords even if I don’t have anything to hide, but just because customer’s info confidentiality, signed NDAs, etc. I don’t think that will bring me to the jail. However, in US, detention is a fact, right?
    >     >
    >     > Regards,
    >     > Jordi
    >     >  
    >     >
    >     
    >     
    >     
    >     
    > 
    > 
    > 
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    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 

    

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This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited.