Re: Is Fragmentation at IP layer even needed ?

Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com> Tue, 09 February 2016 01:07 UTC

Return-Path: <fgont@si6networks.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70D791B3EC7 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 17:07:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.901
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D7QC9GFhTzFy for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 17:07:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from fgont.go6lab.si (fgont.go6lab.si [IPv6:2001:67c:27e4::14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D855B1B3EC1 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 17:07:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.66] (unknown [186.56.164.217]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by fgont.go6lab.si (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B22F2206B3D; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 02:07:11 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Re: Is Fragmentation at IP layer even needed ?
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
References: <CAOJ6w=EvzE3dM4Y2mFFR=9YyPBdmFu_jkF4-42LjkdbRd3yz_w@mail.gmail.com> <BLUPR05MB1985F5F2BB3118362C67B921AED50@BLUPR05MB1985.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <20160208200943.A615941B5B96@rock.dv.isc.org> <BLUPR05MB19857B918B236880CE8FE871AED50@BLUPR05MB1985.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <56B91905.4020801@tzi.org> <CAMm+LwgkpQnBm37Hq9qpffQKVgO9fyRv54pG6UM-gj8qFd_-Ow@mail.gmail.com> <56B92D74.7020903@si6networks.com> <CAHw9_iJ9pLbPgNT+rjmRDYxP9LnMAyUMQCE0f5=LaMVVxKqPVw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
X-Enigmail-Draft-Status: N1110
Message-ID: <56B93A8B.4020407@si6networks.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Feb 2016 22:02:03 -0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAHw9_iJ9pLbPgNT+rjmRDYxP9LnMAyUMQCE0f5=LaMVVxKqPVw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/L3nSWWyOwWqbpo47oDacDBJb3Nk>
Cc: ietf <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 01:07:17 -0000

On 02/08/2016 09:08 PM, Warren Kumari wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 4:06 PM Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com
> <mailto:fgont@si6networks.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On 02/08/2016 08:20 PM, Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
>     > On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org
>     <mailto:cabo@tzi.org>> wrote:
>     >> Ronald Bonica wrote:
>     >>> The words "many" and "some" don't do justice to the
>     conversation. 
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6-ehs-in-real-world-02
>     provides more concrete numbers from real-world observation.
>     >>
>     >> Ah, but the result is much simpler.
>     >>
>     >> Some other real world data (Google QUIC experiments) already tell us
>     >> that a sizable part of the Internet (was it 7 %?) is not
>     reachable via
>     >> UDP at all.  This just ups that number slightly for IPv6 and UDP
>     >> protocols that don't have their own segmentation.
>     >>
>     >> UDP, it was nice to have known you.
>     >
>     > Maybe what we needed all along was a better TCP that allowed data to
>     > be sent on the first packet.
> 
>     FWIW, TCP does allow you to send data in the SYN.
> 
> 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7413 for those who are wondering. 

Even pre-fast open TCP already allowed this -- however, those data can
only be *consumed* once the 3WHS is complete...

Cheers,
-- 
Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
e-mail: fgont@si6networks.com
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492