Re: The ecosystem is moving

Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> Fri, 13 May 2016 16:09 UTC

Return-Path: <dave@cridland.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DCF12D551 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 May 2016 09:09:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cridland.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P6mqXh1An5Uk for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 13 May 2016 09:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44E1512D187 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 May 2016 09:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id x201so177882320oif.3 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 13 May 2016 09:09:51 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=k4MkDYzKBJcST+zpQjUn7rAHVuS1N6Wb6wDFwi0WSlQ=; b=UUjP7/YpnqdBWr8vMXeAr/COJo5Wk2JlnjUG6iP81s3UEwwSwhI7/KhZZpaJAVicLI /lGno84mpcej8VKRH7ADZgTTCnlakyF3Tlz1L/wZ4kViMcUxvjV1wLun+n81LpMzmGty 7V88tX5IculeQxBSjZG5mZoKvKFs0z+7EeAdw=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=k4MkDYzKBJcST+zpQjUn7rAHVuS1N6Wb6wDFwi0WSlQ=; b=YoV/b9b3An0MQWYfOHpV5etoZsqs5pxzhvOe4V/3h6RDvm3Bgt9oQYvGg/p9Svcdjb mg69pJgpuG7giaKuBHmBAtjK02dc3bGRtAwBByuQlC6OJCK3TtP383H8axUlEs3dwx7A tgXSIITODRWMXL3V3YttNvtYAUhCss+xc1cM7YpK0MR3I+LbH3Y+zWS4FYXVQrHnR0BD D6PmpIyYQD5S0swV7v+ivSK2xVvuK5jDQGG+yCK66h+rhPQOun9fvcxPGQHHI7FVodhj QouyZsFBEZHkeLnJsWUXOe4Sg+BdhxmOZ8HEErDQ0g8ba5+SnYRm+KoTLor8gFQVHwL+ fuGQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FX4/fCcp+2aCCyi91mvp3ATP58YQOn2SKUS0B/OLQtzPckbWMfj6HxLy/iCgTgBZbNpAC28QqxF1X139odj
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.202.76.141 with SMTP id z135mr7978667oia.18.1463155790632; Fri, 13 May 2016 09:09:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.157.8.46 with HTTP; Fri, 13 May 2016 09:09:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CCF7702F-8D99-43B6-ABF3-968679259D89@nohats.ca>
References: <20160511125553.GA19250@sources.org> <CCF7702F-8D99-43B6-ABF3-968679259D89@nohats.ca>
Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 17:09:50 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKHUCzzJO+vSsjVJu59dNyRqBP72i8tXDdhfJ+maCwwES+pBHA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The ecosystem is moving
From: Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net>
To: Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c171482717310532bb81d8
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/LCXvdaGDRj7M1xwTocyNPR3iAEk>
Cc: "ietf@ietf.org Discussion" <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 May 2016 16:09:53 -0000

I scribbled a response to Moxie's blog post from the perspective of someone
heavily involved in XMPP here:
https://medium.com/@dwdbah/federation-privacy-and-user-experience-c158547f07f5

TL;DR: He has some valid points, but his conclusions are very self-serving.

On 12 May 2016 at 16:37, Paul Wouters <paul@nohats.ca> wrote:

> There was always compuserv.
>
> And it is sad for everyone that we now have OTR, axolotl, double
> ratcheting and "signal tm".
>
> Moxie started with OTR, migrated it to ECC and fragmented the encrypted IM
> community. It seems that now he has made it worse due to IPR.
>
> Sad,
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 11, 2016, at 08:55, Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer@nic.fr>
> wrote:
> >
> > A very interesting paper (I said "intesresting", I didn't say I
> > agree!) on open networks where independant nodes with independently
> > developed programs interoperate thanks to standards. The author claims
> > closed and centralized systemes are better, because they allow faster
> > evolution (he uses security as an example).
> >
> > Many IETF cases mentioned (XMPP, IPv6, email...)
> >
> > https://whispersystems.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/
>
>