Re: Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-expl-track-09

Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> Thu, 13 September 2018 13:52 UTC

Return-Path: <erosen@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9DD124D68; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 06:52:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.711
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.711 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79G7P3cV08T9; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 06:52:57 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1A561252B7; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 06:52:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108163.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w8DDo1Wm008655; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 06:52:51 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=subject : to : cc : references : from : message-id : date : mime-version : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=PPS1017; bh=Nnurgy5l6HVzy4xbcfH9gi5oUHIBIY7LscL7IRp7RWg=; b=KovK5zhhKnXkZ4As7PcVfJZx9lDbVeJVsU3McddBqyfli24lzU5nQ5xhv0KbLkJWF6E8 woLK+YlWEHt+AvmPjHVn7nFTWVjr85WyIgbCzFhPDoNu3i+XQcy62KmyWnUi89BLXObd Wx8bfOuUVjnpJSwMpvqK6VqVTRXKZU1kgPwcraghOhOzTzCZh/Uodhx7ro6acjPjQ88m xsNZA9S5+kORzvbhe/DNfPA29FJ9jtHAKD5xb3GZx/RHzlUsndvIeCTKGY1dMfgBLf4k zG4oSgz8LGQecubNRlQM7eTsDahPMWekXgnApf99TD7KFJ6j4O5lQiFDhQkIZue2sSan Eg==
Received: from nam02-cy1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02lp0050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.50]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2mfk4trjt7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 13 Sep 2018 06:52:51 -0700
Received: from [172.29.36.118] (66.129.241.10) by CY4PR0501MB3860.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:90::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1164.10; Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:52:48 +0000
Subject: Re: Rtgdir last call review of draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-expl-track-09
To: Carlos Pignataro <cpignata@cisco.com>, rtg-dir@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-bess-mvpn-expl-track.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org, bess@ietf.org
References: <153680921406.9518.6561870388073765884@ietfa.amsl.com>
From: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
Message-ID: <3e63b661-a61e-fd3d-e607-d3b1e9c3ce31@juniper.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 09:52:44 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <153680921406.9518.6561870388073765884@ietfa.amsl.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Language: en-US
X-Originating-IP: [66.129.241.10]
X-ClientProxiedBy: BN6PR2001CA0035.namprd20.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:405:16::21) To CY4PR0501MB3860.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:90::21)
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: e47c0c03-b89d-4ac4-ea86-08d61980313f
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-HT: Tenant
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652040)(8989137)(5600074)(711020)(4618075)(2017052603328)(7153060)(7193020); SRVR:CY4PR0501MB3860;
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY4PR0501MB3860; 3:68P7yexupus4C5+95fIUxsxznfgyflKi9/gyx7Ff1xWFI7CSAxaHo5e9m5fQMLeyih46A4GtJHHkEwINBYymr5Lbi6ppVSijTqyKqvnOH8w4DY5bRkzdT0u6d/tB9hgr2Tgr6YTewSvzkDUt8tjMzpVJUtO1mbfNMf2PyMGU7gtu7usQ+Iohm/LmvDSxDbZfCq/olRADylf1L1Emo1TkCvk5PFMV9tvfLJFOjzOG8I5eVzlR7gAJ9uRHYSghXYAU; 25:eHrpf5ULjCUp5HdVTU8HN0uvJUqa4I/ADHiynCgAyczpFqtamJp+hjLLlQfhFV2ZB8EJZMFBFfCUOlBfMKaOK0PvE6IjqroIGm4szP2x4vyMGRWRBdyc1kv3+sTA2X1J3JFC4QKJCZXt+mMm7SeHmZIV2uyoTBdoQJkle0w21MSt1/mu5GcusLHSZI7xwklaRVLGy49oZ173JCBDqzesl44ecqCE6Ig41mRVFDgX5KHf4qmy3ebd3NtK4XzLUK5cTpxv+IyKfLenyI0TYuWpseSvZGTnPt5bQA1pgeGh1ShbtTeVs5LWRzPRcloDmvaPZ0ek0QnFpvpYYrxZiJxSKA==; 31:+WwG9t7J38hyUIebD0JMLXXuzLSSBGQBFEblxrFG7WBHMQhLueJMBI47JBqGJ8p2uR3QMkb09MxvUC+BCAL2yaY4+EmnhXU6Nx2Y16kJpOyd72aPmk5TPIp1vsKcphFkMlEHIXVfdeb5ifBKlb7N2GmiLf5mKoVZak+BkKfkEy2GB1Efeqs+biMOxBSn8fKEE8dgGYwuqdCkpdhWZrozK/gRpg4JyQHVfvu1OUVzEC0=
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CY4PR0501MB3860:
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY4PR0501MB3860; 20: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; 4:X0OUPdo2tpn/2hTV07uVA48yky/RQ1fJGZ8aqorkrBRhgvj9pdO3pFb5PgS9wOJfcCZb9MJwP1og3hvJdiCisee7EXP4IJg1fSLy1s6fSVRlDeUh80gRxf0mOgTvQuxbxCLxepT2vcuKWL070hrpR8RUJsUqzKq37Azf1B/UV9WjHak5JB+f8uD5rO5EiBbWcrT9e3IqmPHs5szFm0h/dy8e2D/mq49oRftq2y+XPbZNy4XjzYp19u162rrv2oOdknXCdV7hNJ7vLPeg/wOYEQ==
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <CY4PR0501MB38606BDB19E80C9EE59E8776D41A0@CY4PR0501MB3860.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:;
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(8211001083)(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(823302040)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(3231344)(944501410)(52105095)(10201501046)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123558120)(20161123564045)(20161123562045)(20161123560045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(201708071742011)(7699050)(76991041); SRVR:CY4PR0501MB3860; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:CY4PR0501MB3860;
X-Forefront-PRVS: 07943272E1
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6049001)(376002)(396003)(366004)(346002)(136003)(39860400002)(199004)(189003)(64126003)(7736002)(68736007)(53546011)(6346003)(4326008)(14444005)(16526019)(386003)(8676002)(305945005)(81156014)(26005)(2870700001)(2906002)(77096007)(67846002)(6666003)(25786009)(81166006)(58126008)(3260700006)(31686004)(65826007)(97736004)(8936002)(316002)(16576012)(6246003)(50466002)(5660300001)(47776003)(76176011)(65806001)(65956001)(105586002)(106356001)(52116002)(2486003)(23676004)(66066001)(52146003)(3846002)(6116002)(86362001)(478600001)(486006)(36756003)(11346002)(446003)(6486002)(31696002)(53936002)(229853002)(476003)(2616005)(956004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY4PR0501MB3860; H:[172.29.36.118]; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
Received-SPF: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts)
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1;CY4PR0501MB3860;23: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
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 0npk18vKzH0+ptsxjM7DJ7d6J9PTHrJUQYhdsEj7EvWXEN1d3RqjvqTvhkbQQ+0e1rW0LrvNNk/01A8WHVN2QfRhDzNp5Dg1Xngpsb4wqrcsXqKzvZQokvDHeHo2qMLb3G106zWQJuL1g1r5ZJcvUm7zPfwqaX12nnm5zWvkvQxjHVIHa2s/Pa+YtMVB2AWSVyYlT4VccaPdV3aGOvHY5H22qsqrBc7mvhOZN+Uv18u5Nx7vbxDuejZwAwcnSwQmT5gDlsEnU5qCP8kAuY27CANdZlRvSJclRMv6TgGaBE3V50aMxndqeAuXf8zhLqqiJAstuDVJi5sdGg8rAt0rrUEZZcveuPxJfXOPsSvgecw=
X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; CY4PR0501MB3860; 6:snhaMw1NXWl3MiBnvB/rO2XvswtlRpNYuMD/XgfPjzhgVvBIvuNAcnVnUHZaYl5MWqDIUc1hk13HFeKdlLVCO7k9JHEqUnoxj1/9Laeiv41xJCHi+AHSC5U3H2SOZu8QX6d5Jlg0/yumhd95vNydxvd+H2e7KsNvgJkq57I/zk5Ibo+DezzW4wWdiRa3DjHtxgsLewU2QSU0mah+gpnwo3e1V5noU44OIlH/U5Z6Fu1ZfXRLdVUbop8q8P8icP9CZs9mUmw6sVn13y6ZeFwbeJBwjXV4U3R8zmkVtiajwM9r3vdVPmaSn6O4HNbNi3gpzwlN2Bz+C06L3q/qsbOSLZdeKljIPkMYcdKJJ743MGIyJOOJoJ5zs1L2fGJVcwcIeiL+nTR9oAMxmZGqVga3gyADqeLxqyOPpo97UXw2/ilnHa8S9pmKivsvldnIyv+Q4/8RkX1aHRvpvjnal0XrfQ==; 5:W12eH3jQb63Fwh0461Kmv6ARmyW7Wk1TRTB8ahqR62PSpQZzfaUTuRZm4HUGlBFdC4UvTIEMIx7/BGFKOedPVywwqfjp9JvGtGRJGDxno1B8Dy1pr83Rb2SiCTzY62ZNsJVc47xBIJGPbSxJUJwiXFQ7uUQ7YbW2GRCyq8EHlW0=; 7:C3nv4mcmE0MnCS+w7wtXGQtcEz2mPfGxaNrTq/S/p7uJo3T9kL5mlNrBSPsrRylWWJNWCSHweQAUa1lgGz/dxo4VY4U66eMPZu8zDxUFTIGT5M05Av1hSG9t7xPs4KQnezTyH6hjX/j9zhTMur7mUPhTBiylQ+WC7ISonv5b0ywUE/ToFzPkFNB8DIe1bTAH8G9XUlz+/I3lXr+7qMSNUBQP/ovmNEU7Oobq0buOIAWWhH6fiLzKZ/sm7SBqqPeH
SpamDiagnosticOutput: 1:99
SpamDiagnosticMetadata: NSPM
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2018 13:52:48.3528 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e47c0c03-b89d-4ac4-ea86-08d61980313f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR0501MB3860
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2018-09-13_08:, , signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809130142
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/Lo8KfgBBYTVxZk5Col0fBzTQlS4>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 13:52:59 -0000

On 9/12/2018 11:26 PM, Carlos Pignataro wrote:
> I found the rational and specific details on what this document "Updates" from
> three previous RFCs to be lacking, and confusing.

Carlos,

Thanks for your review.

I don't want to get caught up in the neverending discussion of exactly 
what constitutes an "Update".  This is being discussed right now on the 
IETF list, and it's quite clear that there is no consensus.  As usual, 
every possible opinion is dogmatically held by someone ;-)

The introduction of the expl-track draft explicitly points out a number 
of situations that are not adequately addressed in the prior RFCs, and 
for which the prior RFCs do not provide clear guidance. This is a 
potential source of interoperability problems.

The introduction also indicates a number of new features that are added 
by the draft.

Anyone implementing RFCs 6514, 6625, and/or 7524 will certainly be 
well-advised to read this draft in order to (a) make sure that they 
properly handle the situations that are not explicitly addressed by the 
prior RFCs, and (b) to make sure that they are aware of the new features 
so they can make an informed decision of whether to implement them.

I think this justifies the "Updates" status.

> I recommend an "Updates from RFC XYZ" section in which there is a textual
> explanation and ideally Old/New specifics on how this document updates previous
> RFCs.

I think the introduction covers this in the appropriate level of detail; 
I really don't know what could be added.

Eric