IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service

Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> Mon, 30 November 2020 15:52 UTC

Return-Path: <rdd@cert.org>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021683A0E0E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:52:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cert.org
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gcUWURKHYrwv for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:52:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from veto.sei.cmu.edu (veto.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 19B173A0E09 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 07:52:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from delp.sei.cmu.edu (delp.sei.cmu.edu [10.64.21.31]) by veto.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 0AUFqnB0039990; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:52:50 -0500
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 veto.sei.cmu.edu 0AUFqnB0039990
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cert.org; s=yc2bmwvrj62m; t=1606751570; bh=V1v7ldPlqwySfJI9h4WvzAPXfm7vIy4L+oiLA8uAv/o=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=bJpf4lBxl2JYwcAg3VECyH8YVVJmvxkdw2zsvQBjJqQu4v5pcBZ+9v6wWMSK26Nvx KFRPigXjAuNysDpRmRHzWSwHHC1RaESGzk51Y1bl8QfPREvZTAgZpH1Zgmnu8LAt7l rHn5yAIE7UfAGChJr+nMDOMymHQ9LrA4zaGByQP0=
Received: from MURIEL.ad.sei.cmu.edu (muriel.ad.sei.cmu.edu [147.72.252.47]) by delp.sei.cmu.edu (8.14.7/8.14.7) with ESMTP id 0AUFqnrG017392; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:52:49 -0500
Received: from MORRIS.ad.sei.cmu.edu (147.72.252.46) by MURIEL.ad.sei.cmu.edu (147.72.252.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2106.2; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:52:46 -0500
Received: from MORRIS.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([fe80::555b:9498:552e:d1bb]) by MORRIS.ad.sei.cmu.edu ([fe80::555b:9498:552e:d1bb%13]) with mapi id 15.01.2106.002; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 10:52:46 -0500
From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
CC: "ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com" <ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
Thread-Topic: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
Thread-Index: AdbFhPq4N+I9A9Phekarrv37G7C26gASxAgAAAKRvQAAWU02gAABpdoAAAHkJIAAACj6AAAAIt8A//+xMsj///7CAIAADaKv///7HfA=
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:45 +0000
Message-ID: <63b7d79aabbf4ddf9256e8368958a1e7@cert.org>
References: <af6ab231024c478bbd28bbec0f9c69c9@cert.org> <5FC24768.2020603@btconnect.com> <e170d248-8559-a64b-eaa0-620d78746f1c@gmx.de> <69878065-D4F0-438F-A57F-B45F052CA94F@akamai.com> <5FC4E79F.5090207@btconnect.com> <AF1C8668-041D-425B-8350-0B70D3BE76D0@tzi.org> <a92c9bf8-2682-6150-a9db-d6185c6720ec@network-heretics.com> <8210e140-815c-1905-45a6-109075138a08@gmx.de> <1663649a-7f99-5eb2-3dd5-c146aebf6fa3@network-heretics.com> <01RSM30KYRKO0085YQ@mauve.mrochek.com> <f88ae3bbdc3b4beda88eb094dde85784@cert.org> <01RSM4KK2V5I0085YQ@mauve.mrochek.com>
In-Reply-To: <01RSM4KK2V5I0085YQ@mauve.mrochek.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.64.202.131]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/LqP5RXWr1fA6E0DoJNC681kffRM>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0000

Hi Ned!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ned Freed <ned.freed@mrochek.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 10:18 AM
> To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
> Cc: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com; Keith Moore <moore@network-
> heretics.com>; ietf@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
> 
> > Hi!
> 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of
> > > ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com
> > > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:37 AM
> > > To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
> > > Cc: ietf@ietf.org
> > > Subject: Re: Call for Community Feedback: Retiring IETF FTP Service
> > >
> > > > On 11/30/20 9:23 AM, Julian Reschke wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Over here, Firefox saves the originally received text file, so
> > > > > does Chrome.
> > >
> > > > Perhaps that behavior has changed.   When you learn a way to work
> > > > around damage, you tend to keep doing that even after the damage
> > > > gets
> > > fixed.
> > >
> > > True. but more to the point, are you willing to bet that this
> > > behavior is never ever going to change in any future version?
> > >
> > > If so, I have a couple of bridges you may be interested in
> > > purchasing at Cyber Monday discount prices.
> 
> > I'm having trouble understanding the failure mode.  Is the issue at
> > hand that when one uses a browser to download say
> > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7230.txt, a text file isn't being returned?
> > Furthermore, is the concern that browser vendors have changed their
> > behavior over time when saving .txt files?
> 
> The failure mode is that browser behavior is in a constant state of flux. Some
> time ago you got HTML-ized text, yesterday you got text without the form
> feeds, today you get the text file verbatim. Who knows what you'll get
> tomorrow?

I'm sorry, I still don't following.  Clicking on what link did you get HTML-ized text and then text another time?  If one goes to the datatracker (say https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc7230/) and one clicks "plain text", is one not getting plain text?  If one visits, https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc7230.txt, is a TXT not returned?

If one is clicking on txt, html, pdf, htmlize, or with errata (all of the flavors from the datatracker) and not getting txt, html, pdf, html and html, respectively, this is a bug.  Let's troubleshoot it when it happens.

Regards,
Roman

> And as Keith points out, the problem is significantly exacerbated by
> experienced people not engaging in problematic behavior without really
> thinking about it, leading them to assert that there are no land mines simply
> because the path they have learned to follow avoids them.
> 
> 				Ned

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email