Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with [e-mail]

[Donald Eastlake <[e-mail]>]

And we see below a perfect illustration of the difficulties that can
be caused by codification.

Three orthogonal points:

- We should be very careful to have only "guidelines" such that it is
clear any action based on those guidelines is only taken as a
judgement call by an authorized person or group and their is no
guarantee any action at all will be taken. Having "rules" or anything
that appears to guarantee enforcement and you may find people suing
you for failure to take immediate action when the infraction was the
most minor or arguable thing.

- I am very suspicious of the word "professional". Who knows what the
hell it means? Is the previous sentence "unprofessionally" worded? If
you think so, good. I typically see "unprofesional" used as a cudgel
against the strong expression of opinions the critic does not like
when they have no real counter argument to those opinions. Is the
April 1st RFC series something a professional group would do? I think
not. I don't know that a choice is necessary but I would prefer for
the IETF to call itself an "amateur" organization rather than a
"professional" organization.

- Generally, people should be allowed to comment causticly on others
actions but not on their motivations. If I say an action is
"obstructive" or whatever, well, that could be a matter of opinion but
at least in the open IETF process, people can see the action and might
or might not agree with me. If I say an action is "intended to be
obstructive", then, unless I am commenting on my own actions or the
actor has so stated, I am claiming the ability to mind-read...

Thanks,
Donald
=============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   [phone] (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 [e-mail]


On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Techno CAT <[e-mail]> wrote:
> "Calling someone a troll is an ad hominem. We aren't supposed to do that in
> the IETF. At least, not publicly."[1]
>
> "It is rude.
> It is bullying." [2]
>
> HARASSMENT by Brian E Carpenter has been noted for the Legal Record
>
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/
> "Network Geeks - How They Built the Internet"
>
> ===========================
>
> HARASSMENT by Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer at nic.fr> has been noted for
> the Legal Record
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83330.html
>
> ===========================
>
> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83360.html
> "judgment needs to be applied by the ombudsperson & the rest of the IETF
> management
>
> [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83364.html
> [2] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83362.html
>
> "you are encouraged to raise your concern in confidence with one of the
> Ombudspersons"
>
> http://www.intgovforum.org
> http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/541/541650477/541650477_201112_990.pdf
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Brian E Carpenter
> <[e-mail]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jordi,
>>
>> We seem to have a new troll using the address [e-mail]
>>
>> Can you deal with it appropriately, please?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>     Brian
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> @Techno_CAT_r
> http://Twitter.com/Techno_CAT_r