Re: Planned experiment: A new mailing list for last-call discussions

Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Fri, 13 September 2019 20:10 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2019 13:09:42 -0700
Message-ID: <CABcZeBO0NbEVQ67j8ZRgKXmjT3JeLFAgnSpfMA8CqAg1dp_j5w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Planned experiment: A new mailing list for last-call discussions
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Cc: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
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On Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 9:07 AM Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; wrote:

> Hi Barry,
>
> I have read thought the discussion and have a few questions.
>
> As I understand the proposal, the intent is to have the two lists
> initially have the same membership.  As you said:
>
>    Our plan is to create the new list and pre-subscribe everyone who is
>    subscribed to <ietf@ietf.org>; at that time.  Of course, anyone could
>    unsubscribe to either or both lists immediately or later, but we think
>    that doing it this way would minimize the likelihood that people would
>    miss important stuff because of the move, and folks can choose what
>    they prefer from there.
>
> After the initial list creation, will new people be required to subscribe
> to each list separately, or will subscribing to the ietf@ietf.org list
> also cause a subscription to the last-call@ietf list?   I think this is
> an important issue as the value of each list is that there is a broad
> representation of people from the IETF community.
>
> Is it a desirable outcome if the lists become very different in
> membership?   If the ietf@ietf.org list becomes a lot smaller, is this a
> good outcome of the experiment, or a bad outcome?
>
> I am thinking that both lists should have the same membership, that is,
> one can’t unsubscribe from only one. This would preserve the broad
> community review of last calls and for community discussions, but still
> allow separate discussions.
>

I disagree with this. Part of the value proposition here is to allow people
to engage with last calls and avoid the... unpleasantness... which is the
ietf@ list.

-Ekr




> How are we to evaluate the experiment?   I have have no doubt that it will
> achieve the goal of keeping the discussions separate.  I think we should be
> defining other criteria in which to evaluate the results of the experiment.
>
> Also, a related question, how do new IETF participants know to subscribe
> to the IETF list these days?   Do we have any way of knowing if current
> active IETF participants are subscribed?   Perhaps, when registering for a
> meeting, the registration tool could offer to subscribe to the
> ietf@ietf.org and last-call@ietf.org lists.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
>
>