Re: My two cents on draft-leiba-rfc2119-update

Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org> Wed, 10 August 2016 16:49 UTC

Return-Path: <barryleiba@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B56D812D58A; Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.598
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1WjytMrqKsNS; Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk0-x22b.google.com (mail-qk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FFE312B032; Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id p186so49367392qkd.1; Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=3p8xfkyWgowVTzqOdBCV2fXoykLIDypvDoz6SpfSUeY=; b=s8jdiF9Cmso/0SgnFtcDdLlqKmWPo9aovzYkOJoPJs2PcOsoKGfj68sYU5XEr8opx6 d9gWguh6k2kXxhv/ju//n9kKS0RyjQlSoTJO3YUgnWPuXhcHrK2/4iGeaJ1n6KYwLwEq MFJfZmkUqMg7gQAcQvfhX1F9SvBCNo9+UcPRMbKuZWVV9VJ34cB24u8fpitnaAECOGJz lrHT7nV9uyPQ4UaVju4NxcHgh0bHAHPPccNOAhJ8+Ya2iWUoQOxlQVfH7YgMbDWw2bPR w8ZijVe4KDQNQ2VxnvdnIhL+Y8n1zeVCpbRjcy1CXbY1exsOHOnMusnJ2XEDEiEC+dKd 0nPg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3p8xfkyWgowVTzqOdBCV2fXoykLIDypvDoz6SpfSUeY=; b=Fl2DYbfKdRY5Gs6MkYMuCZ3YlvWMpXFNEzGpKlAzUJ5+TFUEnZQOP6KWDZHSpvJ6Xn L7O90IZuRhiFK+LYggqSDIVtgRF7aVf5bq9Rf43PEG//V9ILUJULoEHAntdVbXgUecwX tCcGtpNxhCIaA0smR3mKShrNHaQ9yFBeAbDV1Mt5yxRHhXa4pYTJ4BNnauOTs5EmftmD CMRAQZlm2D3TVffd8DQTgDXQNn3+pmFu2Zs75L/NykB/jichImo+i+yjxxl+zp5GeXEZ K26SahPWCioFlgfSDlJYa+sry4FzyZWl30y+a5f9wj5wc3Jj07Bstqo3jeY7T1tAITQa SHRg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouvNigOhZGzs4hNly07fftdmdNz3cQ0cZFfx617DlKQfdcQjOtEW9aC/bW207o770Ly08X8W0gKyNl6eVg==
X-Received: by 10.55.41.71 with SMTP id p68mr5784788qkh.218.1470847780388; Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:49:40 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Sender: barryleiba@gmail.com
Received: by 10.140.39.52 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Aug 2016 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <0f2001d1f324$7efe43e0$7cfacba0$@olddog.co.uk>
References: <0f2001d1f324$7efe43e0$7cfacba0$@olddog.co.uk>
From: Barry Leiba <barryleiba@computer.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 11:49:39 -0500
X-Google-Sender-Auth: z4f24169sC-uY4agdkO7nWM-hW8
Message-ID: <CALaySJLpmBGxORq-q-LHoWaxq2ZdQeMqUD36j-EapJj1oAJn8A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: My two cents on draft-leiba-rfc2119-update
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/NDe7pL90WIimMg18fwRykD116Ag>
Cc: draft-leiba-rfc2119-update.all@ietf.org, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:49:43 -0000

Just one bit here:

>    In many standards track documents several words are used to signify
>    the requirements in the specification.  These words are often
>    capitalized, as shown below, but they do not have to be.  This
>    document defines how these words are interpreted in IETF documents
>    when the words are capitalized and/or marked as <bcp14> in the
>
> This appears to say (well, it does say) that "the words" are used to "signify"
> the requirements and are not always capitalised when they do. It then says it
> defines how they are interpreted when capitalised "and/or" marked with BCP14,
> which implies that if I use lower case but reference BCP14 then the
> interpretation provided by this document applies. The later attempt to disclaim
> definition of "normal English meanings" runs counter to these two statements.

It's more than "referencing" BCP 14: it's using specific XML markup to
mark them as BCP 14 key words.  They will be rendered in all caps in
the generated plain text, PDF, and HTML.

OK, and a second bit:
There *is* a problem that this is fixing: we (collectively) spend a
lot of time messing with this -- discussing, in document after
document, whether lower-case versions matter, and what should be what.
This document is attempting to get rough-consensus answers so the
questions don't have to be re-argued over and over.

Barry