IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04

"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Tue, 14 February 2017 19:46 UTC

Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FFB912943B; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 11:46:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.221
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A5oYeT-FnMMj; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 11:46:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 951521297C6; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 11:46:16 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v1EJkFEi011586; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 12:46:16 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.238.222]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v1EJk7Ts011118 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 14 Feb 2017 12:46:07 -0700
Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 11:46:06 -0800
Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Tue, 14 Feb 2017 11:46:06 -0800
From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>
Subject: RE: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04
Thread-Topic: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04
Thread-Index: AQHSg01qd1t1l5P4r0CAXezaoK6tiaFijiOA///QkXCABnBjgP//3WSwgACNdoD//3ylEAAEjdGhAACokzAAEaEMAAAQAsUw
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 19:46:06 +0000
Message-ID: <9ef36e63256448b0b17c91e145ad6fde@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com>
References: <148665359396.20513.9749548375095869760.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <2997d33f-3884-7831-50ed-1713c93b3867@gmail.com> <b9dfd941-0eba-c257-fef4-2f5e6bbd82a8@gmail.com> <078b28a9a26540da9e4caaba4c436cd3@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <440c60d3-0687-c7f1-f8b6-19620e6f618a@gmail.com> <6cb665e0a2244dae93e1b5b91bd9495a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <fce8c0ef-25b7-9ba7-a5bf-9b5d7f2b19fc@gmail.com> <f4f81574e09e45169438d39afeb83369@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <1fb9a3ad-19e5-0b35-d15a-e74fed88bb8b@gmail.com> <57307617-C87C-4430-B92A-59E28C6779CD@employees.org> <097680c30ae64d74b0c30ffcaeb4c112@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <6E42D46A-06BC-4C6D-8411-FA969164CD41@employees.org>
In-Reply-To: <6E42D46A-06BC-4C6D-8411-FA969164CD41@employees.org>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-MML: disable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/OofzsWNep6vgqh5MHWyXbkZi-CI>
Cc: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>, "gen-art@ietf.org" <gen-art@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis.all@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 19:46:18 -0000

Hi Ole,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: otroan@employees.org [mailto:otroan@employees.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 11:17 AM
> To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>; Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>; gen-art@ietf.org; 6man WG
> <ipv6@ietf.org>; ietf@ietf.org; draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis.all@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Review of draft-ietf-6man-rfc1981bis-04
> 
> Fred,
> 
> >> Yes, but sending at 1280 does not work for IP tunnels. The whole purpose of the minimum MTU was to give space for tunnel
> headers
> >> (1500-1280).
> >
> > But, if non-tunnel links set a 1280 MTU which is perfectly OK with the standard then
> > there is no space for headers. Given the issues with classical PMTUD then (plus the
> > non-applicability of RFC4821 for tunnels) the only solution for tunnels is fragmentation.
> > I'll let Joe step in if he wants to.
> 
> You are correct. "Does not work for IP tunnels without fragmenting the outer header" is what I should have written.
> Of course it appears IPv6 fragments have a order of magnitude higher drop probability than ICMP PMTUD messages.

Right. Depending on the encapsulation, however, fragmentation might occur as
some mid-layer between the outer and inner IP headers. For example, a UDP
encapsulation that includes its own fragmentation control fields. In that way,
the network would only see UDP/IP packets - it would not see IPv6 fragments.

GUE is an example UDP encapsulation that include its own fragmentation
control fields:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-herbert-gue-extensions/

> Pick your poison.

As far as RFC 2473 is concerned, you are right. Other encapsulations that
can do the fragmentation at a mid-layer between the inner and outer
IP headers should be OK.

Thanks - Fred

> Best regards,
> Ole

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email