Re: Consultation on *revised* IETF LLC Draft Strategic Plan 2020

Eric Rescorla <> Wed, 03 June 2020 22:09 UTC

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From: Eric Rescorla <>
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2020 15:08:35 -0700
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Subject: Re: Consultation on *revised* IETF LLC Draft Strategic Plan 2020
To: Jay Daley <>
Cc: Stephen Farrell <>, ietf <>
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On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Jay Daley <> wrote:

> On 4/06/2020, at 2:26 AM, Stephen Farrell <>
> wrote:
> - I can't see how all the stuff about "participant journey"
> isn't either waffle or over-reach, e.g. if "Fully documented
> participant journey" meant that the someone thinks IETFers are
> going to only follow paths set-out in such a document, that's
> silly and over-reach. If it doesn't mean that then what's it
> for? I suggest removing the term and replacing each occurrence
> with whatever is really meant in each case (or with nothing).
> (And then re-reviewing.)
> My answer may unintentionally come across as rude.
> It appears that you are unfamiliar with the concept of user journeys
> (which, as Ekr has pointed out, is renamed to "participant journey" to be
> more IETF specific).  These are an important tool in understanding how
> people interact with systems, whether those systems are organisational or
> technological.  The details of a user journey are quite simple, as
> explained in the strategy:
> "a map of the different stages of participation (e.g. newcomer,
> leadership), at what stages people start their participation in the IETF,
> how they transition between them and at what stages they end their
> participation.  "

Given that you named me I want to flag that I actually don't think that the
effort you describe here is particularly appropriate  in this case. Trying
to think of the entire spectrum of participation as a set of stages that
people go through is not helpful IMO. It's not really a linear process and
people want different things at different points in their careers and
that's fine, so I don't think that a map of this kind is going to generate
much insight.

As I said, I do think it's important to have clear maps for how the
individual tasks that people want to do work and where they go wrong, which
is sort of a small scale version of this.