Re: Diversity of candidates was Re: NomCom 2020 Announcement of Selections

Fernando Gont <> Wed, 27 January 2021 20:37 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5D463A03F3 for <>; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:37:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.889
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0vAY1BWEAFKp for <>; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:37:45 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2001:67c:27e4::14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E9D33A046B for <>; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 12:37:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [IPv6:2800:810:464:2b9:69a9:e23f:a699:f848] (unknown [IPv6:2800:810:464:2b9:69a9:e23f:a699:f848]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3BB15280386; Wed, 27 Jan 2021 20:37:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: Fernando Gont <>
Subject: Re: Diversity of candidates was Re: NomCom 2020 Announcement of Selections
To: Michael StJohns <>,
References: <> <> <BA07FAFAE7BBE5C47BCB7F58@PSB> <> <28656DF8FE9CF8FD65A91C6E@PSB> <00bd01d6f2a8$9d454b40$d7cfe1c0$> <> <> <> <> <>
Message-ID: <>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 17:24:58 -0300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2021 20:37:50 -0000

Hi, Michael,

On 26/1/21 17:59, Michael StJohns wrote:
> On 1/25/2021 5:06 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> Another point is that the IETF is more about getting good technical 
> stuff out, whereas the ISOC is all about "... promot[ing] the open 
> development, evolution, and use of the Internet for the benefit of all 
> people throughout the world".  Those have some points of intersection, 
> but as has been pointed out - the IETF tends to be a bit parochial.  

I will not challenge that. But I'd say that the inclusiveness problem 
has a lot to do with organizations claiming that the topic is not and 
must not be part of their agenda. And the problem is not fixed by simply 
getting a more diverse management, but rather by solving structural 
problems (if any).

I'd also note that most of the times I've "lurked" this list, many of 
the most heated debates didn't have a lot to do with getting good 
technical stuff out.

Consider, for example, the somewhat recent thread about "inclusive 
language", where most of the debate was triggered by a movement about a 
racism problem in one specific country, that many other countries  don't 
even experience. And, indeed, most of the discussion was around, again, 
one particular of form of "inclusive language", so to speak. (i.e., 
mostly only those terms relevant to such movement).

Additionally, we have (had?) a diversity list, and we *are* having a 
discussion on diversity. So, in this respect, "diversity" does seem to 
be part of the IETF agenda.

I'd note that I support the underlying causes (e.g. blm), and appreciate 
many of these discussions and associated efforts. I also believe that 
they have been pursued in good faith.

However, if the IETF is going to address the diversity issue, it should 
probably seriously consider many axis, rather than cherry-pick a few of 
them that seems relevant to some of its participants -- particularly 
when we start from the assumption that the community is not very diverse 
in the first place.

Just my two cents.

Fernando Gont
SI6 Networks
PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492