Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF14612D864 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GrXlvjEXR5Wk for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:17:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from p130.piuha.net (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AD5612D849 for ; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 07:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9820B2CCE2; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:17:43 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at piuha.net Received: from p130.piuha.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (p130.piuha.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XygVo2EeddIt; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:17:43 +0200 (EET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (p130.piuha.net [IPv6:2a00:1d50:2::130]) by p130.piuha.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23E232CC9A; Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:17:43 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from jari.arkko@piuha.net) Subject: Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_31F5D9E6-B790-48E6-9CC4-BBDB2DD2C560"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: Jari Arkko In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 16:17:42 +0200 Message-Id: References: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A9FA6A7F@PALLENE.office.hd> To: Phillip Hallam-Baker , "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: Cc: IETF X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:17:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_31F5D9E6-B790-48E6-9CC4-BBDB2DD2C560 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Phillip, Charles, > 1) A draft describing the protocol > a) Text describing protocol > b) Examples from running code > c) Reference section > 2) Reference implementation Yes, excellent! > We need to consider how to make open source code readily available to = community that might be interested in it, and to do so in a timely = manner. We also need to consider the target audience, the end users of = the code and specification. Much of the great work the IETF does never = gets adopted. We need more focus on end user community and adoption. We = need to consider barriers to deployability. Hackathons are a small step = in right direction, but I thing we should consider offering training and = keep end users in mind from the start and throughout the standardization = process. Yes, but I would approach this from a slightly different end-point. It = is always the case that convincing others of something new is a lot of = work. In my mind, standards or open source work both succeed best when = performed by those who actually are deploying and in charge of building = mainstream systems (commercial or open source) for the topic. So it is = not so much about IETF folk reaching the adopters, but having the = adopters drive the IETF work=85 Jari --Apple-Mail=_31F5D9E6-B790-48E6-9CC4-BBDB2DD2C560 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJW8AKGAAoJEM80gCTQU46qu8AP/RSUOJmrzwekEmHc5cwV1LDJ 5AzX/bHb3EXgwmItWbecxhVj3DGChY8cxWwUEuie17SRcijlGuYzAyqtOBK0CrLA isddvVwLDMNsNIAT5jh7KXMi7nnaJR21hRQ9FPFrXdI0TsamVhPZjNNKwdLYxVaM WxWgtrQ/VXklLn5c1TrVz7x6yAow7uW4lOZRePp5lLxFHYa6PVC6TUkreIJIxrPo U4ZRzdiTY7wElK5phPXtmAcBnxWOw30kCiIzpedVSiudqtwpQ+hTf6SmPnOowRkE 0NPZDoo/7R1MqP1q6RrrdAk4YyYYB0BamhJcf7pPAiXvKHJUaOsGzmsXIUo+2yZK ehXIHXLUC13gzPorxT1bm/gsBDGRjUP3v02Z0vkbex4/3WfwItFOt7Q/vmLYxDzY m5e6V7777kfBkcpunQUbWxAdF/m3F0Of164Vj53HTImc+B0pbGHcZJKLV9d6HqvY phk6jwazFX52Ng6Y4zZl1Mrau0z1Ibx+h6XxaJcZCOqUgS8UekychJVokyeIkP9+ y+zoLgA0Cd8hPaQ19pT2bupJK7hf0slFZt0ZH+eq1W4yBYDiC7DsrvRQ2tywOpdm 5KRGWY3epYTKZGfCxuie0G/KlgBNnEcpLHPKKCprWm135Yc7u+DSBe1Cdur7tSgK +1WUhseOd2ODFbWopoJq =3r3u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_31F5D9E6-B790-48E6-9CC4-BBDB2DD2C560--