Re: RFC 5378 "contributions"

John C Klensin wrote:
> I have to agree with Andrew and Tom.
>
> If someone stood up in a WG prior to whenever 5378 was
> effective* and made a suggestion of some length, or made a
> lengthy textual suggestion on a mailing list, and I copied that
> suggestion into a draft without any paraphrasing, a plain-sense
> reading of 5378's definition of "Contributor" means that I have
> to go back, find that person, and get permission to post that
> draft today (without a disclaimer), just because, in making the
> posting, I'm asserting that rights are in place that were not
> granted when the Contribution was made. 
>   
Correct.
>
>     john
>
> * I've said this several times before, but neither common sense
> nor fairness permits the IETF to say "RFC 5378 became effective
> when it was published the first week in November, therefore any
> comments, contributions or drafts that appeared after that date
> constitute grants of permission under 5378's rules" ...
> especially in the absence of any specific notice to that effect
> on relevant mailing lists, the presence of a Note Well in the
> IETF registration packet that referred to the old rules, etc.
> Those of us who trust that common sense interpretation (or who
> have been given legal advice that the odds of a judge accepting
> an early-November date contrary to that interpretation are
> fairly small) need to behave as if we cannot assume that
> Contributions made before late November or early December do not
> imply permission to use the Contributions under 5378 rules.
>
> --On Wednesday, January 14, 2009 22:52 -0500 Andrew Sullivan
> <ajs@shinkuro.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 08:33:35PM -0500, Contreras, Jorge
>> wrote:
>>     
>>> No, absolutely not.&nbsp; Use of pre-5378 materials in the
>>> IETF standards process has never been an issue, only use
>>> outside the IETF is problematic (ie, allowed under 5378 but
>>> not the earlier rules).
>>>       
>> Why is the actual situation of the use relevant?
>> "Contribution" is defined in section 1a of RFC 5378, and it
>> plainly says that mailing list posting and anything one says
>> at the microphone in any meeting is included in the
>> definition.  In section 5.1, RFC 5378 says that, by submitting
>> the Contribution, the Contributor is "deemed to have agreed
>> that he/she has obtained the necessary permissions" to enter
>> into the agreement allowing the IETF to use the Contribution
>> according to the new rules.
>>
>> So, just because the Contribution doesn't _happen_ to end up
>> in use outside the IETF by virtue of the IETF's actions does
>> not mean that a Contributor doesn't have to obtain the rights
>> to allow such re-use.  I believe that the _intent_ of 5378 is
>> ...
>>     
>
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