Re: What's the alternative to "snarling"?

Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> Mon, 19 April 2021 16:36 UTC

Return-Path: <dave@cridland.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06CCF3A39D8 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:36:13 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.197
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cridland.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fwgirVMfMk_F for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com (mail-wr1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BB5C3A39DA for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id w4so30995465wrt.5 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=n9ETFEc5VyW4HI0Jv6ZvTEBAoc6ignQR8Lsmg06Pm68=; b=iONZPl7Q20D3mKsTLnlzRLvxjbcwNUgGxoZBw3lVpDH8svFqHOiwdhD7oJvdg4q8tH r8Z8+ugvshdvRK1Io6pVjksy8cUpcpBwed4n8yntRB5J7GFS8/ObvvgaBH+sql5v3hea w6aeN5nIBstiSYDZKyxMp9RElyHLUOBwAEaVc=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n9ETFEc5VyW4HI0Jv6ZvTEBAoc6ignQR8Lsmg06Pm68=; b=X/W+k+tSkrXmo6jFwoIRDMCXgaSO0acOckzCRZEj3cCtcmkMC04tU7xF8UnqjABF6b 5fIEUXIcnWS8DgHasB0dOuRFnfoSZht+J7BUJ/WdrSDuGrx6nou45llTIQgcdVaQEST2 pfS+P3CV+V8C25ps5Q5kWqvzkOFnUaaS0gZWzvTLjFimrh09OwEbshM2w6dgvMU+eyyw EY8FdrpUPyxe842fLcN3TBY/vTaSz8V5tOaZ9b4RPN1qTrD7b5YszC7fTQquC3jLdAoL X8dvOpSBoKeqyX9QdIUsDYCr+wirzEN9RXCz0NVr7cJ53GQNhp2I1B5GdvFgE0teQNoy ttFw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531vtYtVzSo+Xbvket/gKTRE8AvKIsyKZqiflb3unBVpGFPful+3 lInTPx7++6owrXx1HoLhebrNduBJk4Oqk6bLtTZX7o78JnNMEg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzC2tbw4uDi86i/iQRuelKU/whbFi+1Vkz3YtTSbCGuljI+XyJmW18k5BuADQChmtNCIq34wYL0/tfp+Glmtag=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:186d:: with SMTP id d13mr15560559wri.199.1618850160856; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:36:00 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAHw9_iKcacK-gsmL9P_yBuyeGYnB44j1=TxF=VnG3Uu65JKJcQ@mail.gmail.com> <f02a58f3-ff79-3f3f-fc31-7aa17f7d14aa@mtcc.com> <698cf4f7-de67-8efb-a944-b29da42dca31@network-heretics.com> <dc7ff33f-a007-7afe-7d1b-92a242b7c799@mtcc.com> <aaebce66-6318-dc16-b8b0-5a7d7e3361a3@network-heretics.com> <6f709190-7f44-906b-a36b-90a8a4d73153@mtcc.com> <1b9fd5ac-5ef6-0114-4a2e-96e7a53aa665@network-heretics.com> <cec30d23-6d88-9de9-c606-b6cc2bbeb922@mtcc.com> <3fa5b354-c11c-9051-8416-46859f10cce6@network-heretics.com> <20210416031704.gu46kq46fmp6a3yh@crankycanuck.ca> <6AABB43E-FB70-4FDE-AA59-3D2AE25F4B64@me.com> <433863C0CD9449636063CDE3@PSB> <cdaf3837-05f5-a260-d99c-6858eb087d28@network-heretics.com> <373f5062-ff62-0eaa-bf12-8c25a510c1f1@mnt.se> <98c8a89f-5011-1f75-272f-5acaa39c7092@network-heretics.com> <f9a50edc-a5b8-c5a2-92ad-f1e8533643a6@petit-huguenin.org> <20d5c6a4-29bd-45d1-9494-7ab214bf8af8@network-heretics.com> <bf9bf645-dbd8-e51e-5f49-b039f0f67d87@mnt.se> <0b63d094-8c95-409f-282e-86231128f7b5@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <0b63d094-8c95-409f-282e-86231128f7b5@network-heretics.com>
From: Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:35:50 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKHUCzw5UzXKXutGXEVNjdYeHxrymhahveSYFpzo9GbiQjcMhA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: What's the alternative to "snarling"?
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: "ietf@ietf.org Discussion" <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c85f5b05c055eca6"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/RInOnKDK3BHMNDD8o2wFnSuXA8Y>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:36:13 -0000

On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 at 16:24, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
wrote:

> On 4/19/21 11:16 AM, Leif Johansson wrote:
>
> >> That way, they can learn to snarl like the rest of us :)
> >>
> >> Keith
> > Or we assign tasks to old-timers so they can learn not to.
>
> In other words, they can spend all of their time politely explaining in
> detail why proposals are Bad Ideas, instead of getting useful work done.
>
>
Radical thought: What if explaining in detail why a proposal is a Bad Idea
*is* useful work?

What if it might bring new people in to provide new insight? That strikes
me as very useful work indeed.

Dave.