RE: HTML for email

Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org> Tue, 02 March 2021 17:43 UTC

Return-Path: <masinter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B273A07DD for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:43:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.499
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PVhSBTj9uWaR for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:43:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42d.google.com (mail-pf1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E30923A07DA for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:43:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id i10so5129429pfk.4 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Tue, 02 Mar 2021 09:43:48 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=9UKn2WkRBv9ag1YVdf9EE8avbQP3dvCO4eLmFfev5J0=; b=k4SA17bA0jDmUv51BQgmsVZAX21hqUnjhV4XzZA8c++UGuDKAs6ntyB0A6x5yDiCxx 6w8hzdYBsZtlieu2+sRd3OUK5gvy2wtLdtgiuTMZpgzHhLATtqlKkwYjFztgPAbGYnqi i/JBiJxnOvok5eN6BRegzBScjr4Z+KJhaiY7obHOAIokybDVQGkwSTdOy6ZY/bk+hmUn nrreaIcfJECpH3Q8bTU/ejeAiaZGlbcjZNTcLJ/GOsPyscF/sX2mYX+yFtVflXMWC97X 6Idpzt/d+7kHXoge068P4C2XfxUxsaBo4WA2GpknpBxhe7NEDoQWPEqJPEUYB8p3ZjKT vaXg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject :date:message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:thread-index :content-language; bh=9UKn2WkRBv9ag1YVdf9EE8avbQP3dvCO4eLmFfev5J0=; b=DvfywmCgs4xJD9mSS0EDlZbXaSEGG1klvhY5kntZokmO9Ic73S8bOnyoDrgjlDn5mZ piHTe6nf6Nnx51FOjREXBoSSebwM8OhRQCO+mbAwhOJoKnzzoaKAyb6F16sh+I0VpW24 me8TNJcGRGvDetLpnVB2EUevoJfXpmB1KBrbPuUgmsQTD1k3Iedj1USXgeuScvSvvD0P iK4qPuHIMG7+ZohtXennAc+KOXfLhxZfECkeCOxusgjc9rqPoRINzzzeOia6dVrypeXn lyC9fVUNHkQhhmxamK84keBlNXXvTBhoFuC3spH1lYs6+Xo5RnBTBieJyVu04IRsLX3L 4RXw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533xpxyHPtTCvDW4h4RWq7paIrf1vDb7ZFdEs6SMYrEf1WN6MRqB PMj8ZLjuVVYqJHF93f+NVTQyLepOEes=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz8ZHz5pkbAOe4Hk4F048UkBoRqe9JoNH65AtlDNMRvPZC0Rf6W6IOH4l9Wf/Mw5Sk/1iVqmQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a62:77ce:0:b029:1ed:a345:ecd with SMTP id s197-20020a6277ce0000b02901eda3450ecdmr4356985pfc.30.1614707026916; Tue, 02 Mar 2021 09:43:46 -0800 (PST)
Received: from TVPC (c-73-158-116-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.158.116.21]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y63sm14505034pfy.68.2021.03.02.09.43.45 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 02 Mar 2021 09:43:46 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Larry Masinter <masinter@gmail.com>
From: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
X-Google-Original-From: "Larry Masinter" <lmm@acm.org>
To: "'Nick Hilliard'" <nick@foobar.org>, <ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com>
Cc: "'IETF Discussion Mailing List'" <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <20210227190200.06ED46F10439@ary.qy> <4064.1614454347@localhost> <s1f0vo$ejp$1@gal.iecc.com> <59240886-320d-fae3-6b98-7b83dacaf5e7@network-heretics.com> <CAMm+LwhWCsG68GOws-Zm9TDcEZ4trGBhq7Dm-_0Ci8Ri7kDK=Q@mail.gmail.com> <603D2360.1070406@btconnect.com> <20210301183401.GI21@kduck.mit.edu> <20210301232237.GI30153@localhost> <20210301233255.GM21@kduck.mit.edu> <603E08A1.1010406@btconnect.com> <01RW6LH8U8A4005PTU@mauve.mrochek.com> <d0da909a-7c55-5493-4c32-537a9cd2f968@foobar.org>
In-Reply-To: <d0da909a-7c55-5493-4c32-537a9cd2f968@foobar.org>
Subject: RE: HTML for email
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2021 09:43:45 -0800
Message-ID: <085e01d70f8b$98c754f0$ca55fed0$@acm.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Thread-Index: AQGiS2ioNXMUrUZTPpXRVgVX17Y91wHmNXREApOwxsUBcc5u5gMfvKwYAi9gvewCF1j2/AJwA629AePaBXkB6bXCuAFG8F6XAhdUUWGqIw8d4A==
Content-Language: en-us
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/RWpyhxPnx7vEqh2MR-Js0ukJbgk>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2021 17:43:50 -0000

There is a working group WPACK which could have taken on the problem of how to package HTML, embedded image, JavaScript libraries in a way that could be interpreted in a sandboxed environment. Maybe what they are doing could be retargeted for such a purpose? 

--
https://LarryMasinter.net https://interlisp.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf <ietf-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Nick Hilliard
> Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 7:55 AM
> To: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com
> Cc: IETF Discussion Mailing List <ietf@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: HTML for email
> 
> ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com wrote on 02/03/2021 14:08:
> > And like it or not, outside the IETF the HTML horse left the barn a
> > long time back.
> 
> Bear in mind that even within the IETF, plenty of people view the entire
> HTML email debate as flogging the proverbial dead horse, and when it rolls
> around every several months, welcomes it in the same way that you might
> welcome an outbreak of cold sores.
> 
> > We can chose to deal with or ignore it, but getting it back in the
> > barn is not an option.
> Looking at this from a different perspective, in the twenty-something years
> of discussion since Content-Type: text/html first appeared, have any
> actionable and viable suggestions emerged about how to deal with html
> email, other than stripping it off in the archived emails?
> 
> Maybe the people who are upset about html email could form a working
> group, take the discussion there and write up an ID with observations and
> recommendations for html emails at the ietf?
> 
> Nick