RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100

Alexander Nevalennyy <avnevalenniy@gmail.com> Tue, 31 January 2017 10:43 UTC

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From: Alexander Nevalennyy <avnevalenniy@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 13:43:09 +0300
Message-ID: <CAGxDXJ_=r7Jowr6LfnnMN9G6+8rZAzFYC2DTeMRZAVOUCGJ8Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100
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Hi all,
In my opinion there are nothing to worry, Trump is trying to protect US
citizens. After 4 months FBI and Homeland security will make white lists
... Can anybody  help with contacting ISOC to take fellowship? . I wrote
twice to them without any results.

31.01.2017 12:49 пользователь <ietf-request@ietf.org> написал:

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Today's Topics:

   1. RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for
      IETF 100 (Mani, Mehdi)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 09:49:15 +0000
From: "Mani, Mehdi" <Mehdi.Mani@itron.com>
To: Naeem Khademi <naeem.khademi@gmail.com>om>,
        "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
Cc: "recentattendees@ietf.org" <recentattendees@ietf.org>rg>, "Ietf@Ietf.
        Org" <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for
        IETF 100
Message-ID:
        <CY1PR0401MB090842ADC4BEB265262DDD58934A0@CY1PR0401MB0908.
namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear all,

As an european holding a french passport with my origin coming from Iran i
cannot travel to US with this executive order of Mr Trump even if i work
for an American company.

So i beleive as well that meeting venues should not be any more in US with
such ? discriminatory law.

Regards
Mehdi


De : Recentattendees [mailto:recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org] De la part
de Naeem Khademi
Envoy? : mardi 31 janvier 2017 10:44
? : jordi.palet@consulintel.es
Cc : recentattendees@ietf.org; Ietf@Ietf. Org <ietf@ietf.org>
Objet : Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 9:58 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <
jordi.palet@consulintel.es<mailto:jordi.palet@consulintel.es>> wrote:
If we include such a cancellation clause, we should also have an insurance
contract to cover the non-refundable cost such as flights and hotels that
some participants book 1 year in advance in order to have it cheaper.

The next IETF in the US after Chicago, would be in July 2018 in SF. I don't
think it's even possible to buy a flight ticket for that time as of now
(most airlines wouldn't do such pre-sale). So, it's pretty much possible to
relocate that meeting elsewhere with causing no loss to anyone's
already-made plans.

Regards,
Naeem


Regards,
Jordi


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Recentattendees <recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org<mailtomailto:
recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org>> en nombre de "MH Michael Hammer (5304)" <
MHammer@ag.com<mailto:MHammer@ag.com>>
Responder a: <MHammer@ag.com<mailto:MHammer@ag.com>>
Fecha: lunes, 30 de enero de 2017, 20:57
Para: James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com<mailto:james.seng@gmail.com>>
CC: "recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees@ietf.org>" <
recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees@ietf.org>>, "Thompson,
Jeff" <jefft0@remap.ucla.edu<mailto:jefft0@remap.ucla.edu>>, Dan Harkins <
dharkins@lounge.org<mailto:dharkins@lounge.org>>, "Ietf@Ietf. Org<mailto:
Ietf@Ietf.%20Org>" <ietf@ietf.org<mailto:ietf@ietf.org>>
Asunto: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for IETF 100


    James,

    Seeing as the email you chose to quote was a response to my email from
May 27th, 2016, I?m left trying to decide if you were responding
specifically
     to my comments or that earlier thread in general. I still stand by my
statements even if it means that the ultimate IETF decision is not to hold
meetings in the USA ? I think your prognostication unfortunately was
correct. I was not being rhetorical in my
     earlier comments ? We, as participants engaged in technical efforts
across national boundaries need to figure out pragmatic ways of ensuring
our efforts and activities continue to function despite decisions by
specific localities.

    Looking forward, it might be reasonable for IETF to include a
cancellation clause based on the government of the host country engaging in
an act like the ban
     (after the contract has been signed.)

    Mike

    From: James Seng [mailto:james.seng@gmail.com<mailto:
james.seng@gmail.com>]

    Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 2:08 PM
    To: MH Michael Hammer (5304)
    Cc: Thompson, Jeff; Dan Harkins; recentattendees@ietf.org<mailtolto:
recentattendees@ietf.org>gt;; Ietf@Ietf. Org
    Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for
IETF 100



    I rescind my previous comment that the scenario I painted is rhetorical.



    None of our US fellow IETFers here have any moral authority to talk
about "inclusive" ever again.



    -James Seng


    On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 5:44 AM, James Seng <james.seng@gmail.com
<mailto:james.seng@gmail.com>> wrote:
    Since after 9-11, things have change a lot for United States[1].



    Especially for TSA, I remember going to SFO the first time after 9-11,
it took me 2 hours just to clear the security and I missed my flight. I
also remember pre 9-11, I could get into US for
     less than 15-20mins.



    Now, for my American friends who pay in the price in time, let me tell
you what we non-American citizen has to do to get into US after 9-11. We
have been tagged, photographed, fingerprinted,
     all our 10 fingers every time we have to enter US. We have been
systematically profiled, often by racial or nationality, and some of us
have to go through enhanced body-to-body search everytime we cross
security. I was put in a "Muslim" basket been a Malaysian
     for a while so ... And we have to do it with a smile because if any of
us pull of a stunt like Aaron Tobey[2], we could be denied our entry and
possibility forever.



    My wife complains that the over the last decade I have put on a lot of
weight and asked me to check my photos. Unfortunately, I don't like selfie
nor do I like to take pictures of myself. But
     I told her not to worry as TSA has a complete profile of me becoming
fat over the years.



    Today, we all saw a US President may-to-be calling up to forbid Muslim
to enter US, to build walls to prevent people from the south, who threaten
to get even tougher to foreigners.



    So by the same principle that Jeff is advocate, that we hold IETF
meeting where "law declares some people less valid", I prognosticate we may
no longer able to hold our meetings in US.



    [1]
    http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-
things-have-changed-2001-2093156<https://urldefense.
proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ibtimes.com_pulse_
united-2Dstates-2Dafter-2D911-2D6-2Dthings-2Dhave-2Dchanged-
2D2001-2D2093156&d=DwMFaQ&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_
AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=By-_ii3uTWXwVLlJSguY55p0HfTb3e4XAe
JrB2jdPIk&s=m-fQdaqbZqcgauIkHJiSBFctkXe2PnBO7avBpi4zyAg&e=> <
http://www.ibtimes.com/pulse/united-states-after-911-6-
things-have-changed-2001-2093156<https://urldefense.
proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ibtimes.com_pulse_
united-2Dstates-2Dafter-2D911-2D6-2Dthings-2Dhave-2Dchanged-
2D2001-2D2093156&d=DwMFaQ&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_
AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=By-_ii3uTWXwVLlJSguY55p0HfTb3e4XAe
JrB2jdPIk&s=m-fQdaqbZqcgauIkHJiSBFctkXe2PnBO7avBpi4zyAg&e=>>




    [2]
    http://dailylounge.com/the-daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa<
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dailylounge.com_the-
2Ddaily_entry_how-2Dto-2Dfight-2Dthe-2Dtsa&d=DwMFaQ&
c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_
5HxuTpDOXS88&m=By-_ii3uTWXwVLlJSguY55p0HfTb3e4XAeJrB2jdPIk&s=ftD_
q9Kg7jrXVDP9xV9bfxvKfOojJBnA_lfkqadBYdg&e=> <http://dailylounge.com/the-
daily/entry/how-to-fight-the-tsa<https://urldefense.
proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__dailylounge.com_the-2Ddaily_entry_how-2Dto-
2Dfight-2Dthe-2Dtsa&d=DwMFaQ&c=pqcuzKEN_84c78MOSc5_fw&r=Epy6n6lZ-_
AtB6Unawan0zjIdEv95r_5HxuTpDOXS88&m=By-_ii3uTWXwVLlJSguY55p0HfTb3e4XAe
JrB2jdPIk&s=ftD_q9Kg7jrXVDP9xV9bfxvKfOojJBnA_lfkqadBYdg&e=>>



    ps: This is rhetorical to put any doubt in rest. I love US even though
getting there is still a pain for me.



    -James Seng







    On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:34 PM, MH Michael Hammer (5304) <
MHammer@ag.com<mailto:MHammer@ag.com>> wrote:


    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org>]
On Behalf Of Thompson, Jeff
    > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 3:55 AM
    > To: Dan Harkins
    > Cc: recentattendees@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees@ietf.org>;
Ietf@Ietf. Org
    > Subject: Re: [Recentattendees] Background on Singapore go/no go for
IETF
    > 100
    >
    > On 2016/5/26, 21:11:51, "Recentattendees on behalf of Dan Harkins"
    > <recentattendees-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:recentattendees-
bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of
    dharkins@lounge.org<mailto:dharkins@lounge.org>>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >  I would also like to suggest that the ability of certain members to
    > >bring their family on a vacation that coincides with an IETF should
not
    > >be a governing factor in venue selection. Many people like to
launder a
    > >business trip into a family vacation (myself
    > >included!) but that's not why the IETF exists and it should have no
    > >bearing on where we meet.
    >
    > So then, the IETF policy would read ?The IETF may hold meetings in
countries
    > where the law declares some people less valid. If you are such a
person, then
    > the IETF recommends that to avoid trouble with the law you should
hide who
    > you are, including not bringing your family.?
    >
    > Is this the organization that the IETF is going to be?
    >
    > - Jeff
    >

    Jeff,

    Is there any country in the world that meets the standard your comment
implies should be the IETF policy? Is this a case of perfection being the
enemy of good? Perhaps it is a case of perfection being the enemy of
reality. I don't know what IETF policy should
     be but I do recognize that there are very real limitations that
constrain choices. I'll also point out that the choices made will constrain
the choices of participants. I'm not advocating for any particular choice
by the IETF with regard to meeting locations.

    Mike

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    --

    -James Seng









    --
    -James Seng








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