Re: Things that used to be clear (was Re: Evolving Documents (nee "Living Documents") side meeting at IETF105.)

Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> Mon, 08 July 2019 22:40 UTC

Return-Path: <warren@kumari.net>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA61A120018 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.604
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.604 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, PDS_NO_HELO_DNS=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XguFHK1Jbk4u for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:40:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qk1-x72f.google.com (mail-qk1-x72f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::72f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5201120315 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 15:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qk1-x72f.google.com with SMTP id v22so14597083qkj.8 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:40:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6+Qnw/U/TrpxmzteeVHIbGvQGMJ50lGSBxbJ5RSZ80o=; b=lCSIOEY44A3akIYsfSBmZcKtDNij7h86vojyoXVBI97RFp3nxznwUHiZSUD4LRp4Mx /jNJtZJUqYZH5lwpFlyeqxyr3KOTUQI9IB4L0aab9kSZIg6TbRIGdZRr30GzHziaRHZW yMXG2mzEU8y2yysodTKeoL0qKGH79KQJb2kEAy8GgaIgxMb3vjA2H9L14AK+UG4I3/GB 7YNWLN/d6q/H+oSfQz9P30tUMnm28utcA3oCcUHKG8woezQB2H+Q4TeKNsxlSLOZt6uM gZg5l+dQgaVXyU9rz9Sk8VqfyNBXEm3RKPlTfh/dX2vLzxV83wWT2dUIZT/Y/db5umtu +R9Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6+Qnw/U/TrpxmzteeVHIbGvQGMJ50lGSBxbJ5RSZ80o=; b=UOq9FCE8RObiZjdtlezXjRjT5dxdaetXOlOL88DlQ9i2BF/So4Cv/EbTq83gNmQ9S4 NMeOCjrav1pPxBgsbmYbil+Sq+gy1OevfJnFRIIVj19k4rw7gTbSMmiRSa0QAHezKu0L a7Gxhi674+p2O7/k2CeavvFhyOPnLgvDyuoh6WYPeI7/PYsWOPWHIx5ZYxVB/p+BV6fT H/+Jct6m/5pwRQfYGhZ7dToihdXijLyVVzAtPE2EQMOYYzJqbLeKMcPWr9Rwk55waTFi b22BjUgttoWbAilAxiFpRLq+1TreVALfXOx6AIndF3xbW6iri9WjjE7SRF54xg4pA98a i5JQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWynaaw5SByK820e5yT9h527HVuSDspIGX5salQlqdE6lVwUCCu t8Ak5ls7V+1yqSbfA/QyLJ2yo+mbrm4ZXHhEJwPnQw==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwnA1/md3RJF8gYP8XZviMOdnkiTuMH20b1K/lR2eXnhxiWASjR9QZ+f5npLkNNZfetoRQhe5drjoihcCnFV+k=
X-Received: by 2002:a37:3c9:: with SMTP id 192mr16063056qkd.37.1562625645453; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:40:45 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <20190704013009.dlifopcbm2umnqo7@mx4.yitter.info> <b18809df-ee98-fb29-b6c4-04ed579e163a@network-heretics.com> <20190704052335.GF3508@localhost> <911a7af5-071a-ce88-527d-70dfe939b256@network-heretics.com> <6317584D-4C9B-46E9-8197-D2A488701868@fugue.com> <20190704140552.GE49950@hanna.meerval.net> <b0943792-1afc-0c94-51b7-f2d393ef39c5@network-heretics.com> <20190705205723.GI55957@shrubbery.net> <20190706185415.GB14026@mit.edu> <CABcZeBPgNr5UqQ0pLwwNu5wh0g9L9wCd6YyYKCUDO37SPru-_Q@mail.gmail.com> <20190708202612.GG60909@shrubbery.net> <9ae14ad1-f8d5-befb-64e4-fff063c88e02@network-heretics.com> <CAHw9_iK1mdZwTkurC0EWHOc+T1KiqU946R_9jTQ1+VJLp0KbKg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAHw9_iK1mdZwTkurC0EWHOc+T1KiqU946R_9jTQ1+VJLp0KbKg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:40:08 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHw9_iJQGLU2XjtUQgiX7iUUhyUznyfSv01X29PKu7FMPQzLTg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Things that used to be clear (was Re: Evolving Documents (nee "Living Documents") side meeting at IETF105.)
To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: john heasley <heas@shrubbery.net>, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>, Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/Sby6q-uESOSVHH9t2Vzf3ULjR8U>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 22:41:00 -0000

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 5:52 PM Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> wrote:
>
[ SNIP]

> The (proposed) stable-ietf-foo-bar proposal is / was intended to be a
> clear signal that the WG doesn't think that text is sane, not that it
> is carved in stone.

<blush>
"clear signal that the WG doesn't think that text is *insane*".

Thanks to the kind soul who pointed that out off-list instead of on...: -)
W

>
> W
>
>
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
> idea in the first place.
> This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
> regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
> of pants.
>    ---maf



-- 
I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad
idea in the first place.
This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing
regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair
of pants.
   ---maf