Re: AD presence on ietf@ietf.org (was Re: Terminology discussion threads)
S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com> Wed, 09 September 2020 06:32 UTC
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Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 23:31:02 -0700
To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>, ietf@ietf.org
From: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>
Subject: Re: AD presence on ietf@ietf.org (was Re: Terminology discussion threads)
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Hi Eric, At 02:11 AM 20-08-2020, Eric Vyncke (evyncke) wrote: >Thank you for the interaction but I have to reply :-) > >Especially around "... most Area Directors do not participate in >ietf@ discussions..."; my AD job takes 50+% of my time and I have a >day job on the top of it of course... So, it is not really easy to >read all emails on the top; I only read about 10% of them, >especially the first ones in a thread. Sorry, I am just a human >being and I wish that there were better ways to stay connected. And, >I know that my AD peers do the same, trying to get a feeling of the >community. BTW, I personally prefer open mike sessions to this list >as it is easy to forget that human being(s) behind an email address >while on a virtual plenary you 'see' the human beings. > >About "when Area Directors decide what they believe is right without >being accountable for their decisions", I am afraid that I disagree >at least when an AD takes a decision on his/her own (like a DISCUSS >or a YES in a review). I tend to agree with you when the whole IESG >takes a decision as it is a group decision. Sometimes people come to my region and make fancy speeches. Some of those people invoke the name of the IETF in their speeches. I listen to them attentively. Most, if not all, of those speakers do not have a presence on this mailing list. On a few occasions people ask me what I think about one of those speeches. This is where I explain a few things which I have learned over the years. There are advantages, as you mentioned, for mic presence, e.g. verbal communication conveys cues which we cannot pick from an email message. It is time-consuming to read mailing lists. At some point it does not make sense to do that unless the person can make money out of that activity. A few days ago, I had a conversation about mailing lists. The person was reluctant to engage on mailing lists as people only wanted to read comments which suit what they are advocating for. In the above, you mentioned the time constraints in setting time aside for this mailing list. I haven't been reading this mailing list on a regular basis as I also face some time constraints. I don't send messages partly because of the time constraints and partly because of the censorship regime. Furthermore, it makes economic sense to limit the export of indigenous IPR. The point on which you and I disagree is about consultation. I once did a consultation (unrelated to the IETF) which received a low feedback. Although I believed that what was being proposed was right, I did not advocate strongly for the proposal because of the lack of feedback. The rationale for that is based on a UNDP-sponsored study which highlighted a policy-making failure. The last point which you made is about group decision-making. In general, it is better to stick to that. Regards, S, Moonesamy
- AD presence on ietf@ietf.org (was Re: Terminology… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: AD presence on ietf@ietf.org (was Re: Termino… S Moonesamy