Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (and ignores IETF IPR rules)
Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> Mon, 23 November 2009 10:46 UTC
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Subject: Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (and ignores IETF IPR rules)
References: <487AB12E-FD4A-4AD5-8641-17B4B64C6F8F@cisco.com> <4B04A9C5.6060904@gmail.com> <5F5E5CDB0670267DF04D9561@PST.JCK.COM> <01NG9VCEWETC0002QL@mauve.mrochek.com> <A6741735F236784CBB00AAD60DCED23F034FE5CB@XCH02DFW.rim.net> <20091120151251.B04DCF2403F@odin.smetech.net> <87iqd1v9qq.fsf@mocca.josefsson.org>
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:46:50 +0000
From: Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net>
To: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>, IETF-Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>
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On Mon Nov 23 10:03:25 2009, Simon Josefsson wrote: > John-Luc said he is bound by confidentiality obligations from his > company, and I think the same applies to most employees of larger > organizations. There is nothing explicit in BCP 79 to protect > against > this apparent conflict of interest, or is there? Being horribly naïve, I'd have thought that it was obvious that if you cannot satisfy both your obligations as an employee, and your obligations as an IETF participant, then one or other rôle has to be dropped - ie, either you quit your job, or cease to participate within the IETF. I simply don't see what other solution there is, or could be, and I don't see what on earth BCP 79 could usefully say. So, as of now, it seems manifest that any RIM employees should not be participating within the IETF until they have resolved this conflict - indeed, I get the sense that this is RIM's decision, from the statements that RIM employees have made on this list. As I say, though, I am horribly naïve in my understanding of the word "obligation", and I do appreciate that some organizations exist which might put pressure on employees to participate in willful disregard for the IPR rules. I also appreciate that those individuals affected - especially in these times - would then be placed in a very uncomfortable position - one I'm very glad not to be in. The problem is, though, that an organization in such a position will end up eventually be seen to be in such a position, meaning that they are in the position of RIM as I outline above. That is, if the intention is to take commercial advantage of ignoring the IETF's rules for participants, then when such advantage is taken, it'll be obvious that the rules have indeed been ignored, and will threaten their ability to further participate. There is an argument that RIM employees should be removed from all IETF mailing lists until such time as RIM publically states they shall henceforth follow IETF IPR rules, and order their employees to do the same. This has happened to individuals before, when they have clearly stated that they cannot follow the Note Well, and in this case the employees are clearly stating much the same. I'd like to think that this is not required - that, in effect, RIM have taken more or less this decision themselves - but I do look forward to RIM's explanation of how they intend to resolve the apparent conflict of obligations they have foisted upon their employees. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:dave@cridland.net - xmpp:dwd@dave.cridland.net - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Stephan Wenger
- RIM patents using a mime body in a message (and i… Cullen Jennings
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… John C Klensin
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Scott Lawrence
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… ned+ietf
- RE: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Dan Wing
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… tytso
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Stephan Wenger
- RE: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… John-Luc Bakker
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… John Levine
- RE: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Russ Housley
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Thierry Moreau
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Simon Josefsson
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Dave Cridland
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Simon Josefsson
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Scott Brim
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Steven M. Bellovin
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Sabahattin Gucukoglu
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Alexey Melnikov
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Dave CROCKER
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Simon Josefsson
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Thierry Moreau
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Simon Josefsson
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Scott Lawrence
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Scott Brim
- RE: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Glen Zorn
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Arnt Gulbrandsen
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Tobias Gondrom
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Simon Josefsson
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: RIM patents using a mime body in a message (a… Simon Josefsson