Re: I-D Action: draft-bradner-rfc3979bis-08.txt

Brian E Carpenter <> Wed, 30 March 2016 20:12 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id B882F12D935 for <>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:12:40 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.7
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RoXyJAtmk_Zo for <>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 170D812D54F for <>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by with SMTP id td3so48162125pab.2 for <>; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20120113; h=subject:to:references:from:organization:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mk0ACi8hMiBEgb7oWTb1l8ZnJuZQ8IFtq9yoqubOwiQ=; b=gMx6zvXlS+tWKA2a2IXLYU8RBEu2eyCKDiCs/y7LxYTc9AUXBBEQwvY8rM5EPWX5TZ 2iKgzUypetsdZAwZY68l5oaDd1+wUH9ocPhbh6OMeXFmHClyYrbTxdmsZt8Z2frnrKCU cR2iDVUEXC0z+lg2qz2NIgfocKp5gOBQvntsRc4iSrz7S61jiMSPMYR+s/M90SJxpKYT BXY/K7ON6x0Z6nux3KMYfp7JBqloPVsabjy02pq3OHX7idaK3dblT1azUt5b+uxNK8Du 3+Yo5eQC6C/01U4NYV7oMQk39zoKIZQMzT0jGh9YT7rjFLFZO8cO0dmVV0VI/bEu9V1J OubQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mk0ACi8hMiBEgb7oWTb1l8ZnJuZQ8IFtq9yoqubOwiQ=; b=kVF/QvbogwI+kEDTG6eTgxIJTy3Q6ImsUQ1utDIj87HF9u/TvUbrXOuaO9RQh0z5YI 5082YjuM2Yvmzfi6MVMrap0Hwc7Kbt831PnWtVDB35N6V17HRiMd3CTlrQIPtwkGLaQy AV8+slXyY9LDtAKnyZzqksbMhXipLEE+2O9B4QsK9s7tT9iSqnR5f3c5u5hH2p2XhEyZ FFTUsoSCz9L6CZSBYJS4GYlT6xVemQZKqyPFeNHwzwBvtNRCVfdxu0gB752Psf3Kv28D /q1SxlnYxIJjQhjQhcTWfDqMLnUqUjzA/Wif8PP64w2OqxavN9oIfTeNLmacWrpyCOIp 2amg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJLC5/4IIBaBsjXxqLHEobow6Xxz76yvfZW8t5p/sKGfhdGI/LhlxdxK2UNZWHmg0A==
X-Received: by with SMTP id aj8mr16312106pad.18.1459368758722; Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:12:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:705e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:705e:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by with ESMTPSA id r68sm7885717pfa.33.2016. (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:12:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-bradner-rfc3979bis-08.txt
To: Michael Cameron <>, "" <>
References: <> <>
From: Brian E Carpenter <>
Organization: University of Auckland
Message-ID: <>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 09:12:41 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 20:12:40 -0000

On 31/03/2016 06:01, Michael Cameron wrote:
> To clarify this, I would propose deleting the phrase "reasonably and" in Section 5.1.2.

I would object very strongly to this deletion. We have always said "reasonably and
personally known" to make it clear that nobody is expected to go to unreasonable
lengths to discover the existence of IPR. For anyone who works for a large company,
it is clearly unreasonable for them to be aware of all IPR owned by that company,
and this phrase covers that case nicely, especially given that we all participate
and contribute here as individuals, even if we happen to use a corporate email
address. This phrase has stood the test of time and should not be changed.

> ...  Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, acting as a working group chair or Area Director shall constitute "Participating" to the extent such person engages in discussions or review of a Contribution as part of the activities of their relevant working group or area. 

That seems 100% redundant to me. How could anybody possibly interpret the roles
of WG Chair or AD as anything other than participating, at moments when they
are not contributing (which they often do)?