Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu> Thu, 07 March 2013 20:14 UTC
Return-Path: <hartmans@mit.edu>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04EBB21F8A3E for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:14:16 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.55
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.55 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.049, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6XV4jVnv1CPL for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.painless-security.com (mail.painless-security.com [23.30.188.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB6E21F89C7 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (c-98-216-0-82.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [98.216.0.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "laptop", Issuer "laptop" (not verified)) by mail.painless-security.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BDBD20183; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:14:03 -0500 (EST)
Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 1DEBE41CE; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:14:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>
To: dcrocker@bbiw.net
Subject: Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
References: <5134F720.5010507@cisco.com> <tsl1ubvlywt.fsf@mit.edu> <CAHBDyN6AM-_b2HMrmmQQVuhxFc-_Rfpfg0=r38mkcJ4zqoJeTw@mail.gmail.com> <tslr4julxmh.fsf@mit.edu> <1C1C0842-BF6A-4A3F-A312-35CF0A994793@lilacglade.org> <BDCCFB12-1F2C-44BD-867A-92E5745F3D39@vigilsec.com> <7B6FDB89-F360-45B6-8240-F2F9F81ABAA7@vigilsec.com> <9292FB65-9842-4C95-9284-15F1E9ECEE1D@lilacglade.org> <5138AE1F.5080602@neclab.eu> <tsl6213p67w.fsf@mit.edu> <20130307182406.GR2854@nsn.com> <tslk3pjm55w.fsf@mit.edu> <5138F22D.5040206@dcrocker.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 15:14:12 -0500
In-Reply-To: <5138F22D.5040206@dcrocker.net> (Dave Crocker's message of "Thu, 07 Mar 2013 12:01:49 -0800")
Message-ID: <tsl7gljm0h7.fsf@mit.edu>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.110009 (No Gnus v0.9) Emacs/22.3 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Cc: Martin Stiemerling <martin.stiemerling@neclab.eu>, Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@mit.edu>, IETF <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 20:14:16 -0000
>>>>> "Dave" == Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> writes: Dave> I agree it's not hairsplitting and that it is vitally Dave> important. Dave> Unfortunately, Sam, your model is simply wrong. Dave> The IESG defines the job requirements. The Nomcom selects Dave> according to those criteria. Dave> I'm been in a number of Nomcom's that wished for some Dave> flexibility concerning job requirements, but each of these Dave> Nomcoms was very clear that it did not have a mandate to make Dave> changes in job criteria. When you say my model is wrong, I think you're talking about the model in practice. I wrote a note last night explaining why I believe my model is right according to RFC 3777. If you think I got that wrong please ignore the rest of this message and explain what I missed. If you are saying that the nomcom feels pressure to take the desired expertise provided by the IESG and treat it as the required qualification in RFC 3777, then I absolutely agree you're right, and personally I consider that a significant problem. Because I believe that's wrong, I've been working here to try and set the expectation that we should be following the RFC 3777 model. I've also been talking to the nomcom and IESg members about the issue. It's a really serious problem. The nomcom I served on believe the IESg got the desired expertise wrong in a number of ways. We wanted to ask the community about the set of qualifications we planned on using. Our nomcom was strong-willed enough that we were going to use our qualifications if they were supported by community input. However we got pushback from the IESG on circulating our text, so we just went ahead and used a set of qualifications that no one (until the IAB) got to see. Ah joy!
- Appointment of a Transport Area Director IETF Chair
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John C Klensin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Michael Richardson
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Randy Bush
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John Leslie
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Leaf Yeh
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Melinda Shore
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Ralph Droms
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hector Santos
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Stewart Bryant
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John Leslie
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dale R. Worley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Loa@pi.nu
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Elwyn Davies
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Allison Mankin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Randy Bush
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Allison Mankin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Benoit Claise
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Alia Atlas
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Benoit Claise
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Wesley Eddy
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director l.wood
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director PFRC - jhaas
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Bob Braden
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Melinda Shore
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Carsten Bormann
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Jari Arkko
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Jari Arkko
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Michael StJohns
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- How do they select people (was: Appointment of a … SM
- Re: How do they select people joel jaeggli
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director S Moonesamy
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Carsten Bormann
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Greg Shepherd
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Samuel Weiler
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling