Re: documenting rsync, or, what are we here for anyway? (was: Re: what is rsync)

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Fri, 27 November 2020 18:45 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 761E33A0D45 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:45:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.851
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.851 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=HW7WTzlj; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=aonnU0Uw
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id luxN-wxoivcc for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:45:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8FD33A0D38 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:45:53 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 70285 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2020 18:45:51 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=11286.5fc1495f.k2011; bh=+XC01uJZwNGz2h0R2eXwIjaydnlh0/axrZATS3K4ev0=; b=HW7WTzljL+lTyE++ZBaXuyGRQjABsRtk16XPmzglQcNVwtzqu5u1p1xYtLtZnIovlLJDwvLbyQzdamsodgXPRzyRVO/CG+TliF7iaUOtBQq42HFFvSEeLr4UxfnnF7c8ig37JosuQoIBbFR2YLSYe5fLP8D2FerjFuc8cScwRo7+sevy641eQN0a+DHDh2WDfMes6ylCwapoa7Y/td8XAK0nPllfINeV9+fWT3WLXhVin5CrJylm263PlR9fN+nVnWstNJTFD7Ic1hG4UV20FxcJ23Msead0ujzSIlyvrj92rqrxxVXtNlH0BpGSk66pGUcSF+1l5tSs+ZrUFjKWWw==
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=11286.5fc1495f.k2011; bh=+XC01uJZwNGz2h0R2eXwIjaydnlh0/axrZATS3K4ev0=; b=aonnU0Uw8CPnvfg0cwea3ER86CgxlyRmVXDagPoIFy8GyHXM6GXS02mjinoQr1VZ7AjzbyUmbCg4MQrU5mZhZZUhClJ5daaebM3HKpvELe8yMEuBHYVIk3u7s6epGAZwDDg6yVxmoUfagIXXCYb8wxYlrcDYez7Aqa2DgQgCK1NyVSgAiKv31A96SOxpEmKNmOaaxOwXyORccWSAoJYCHMDH7PYexpMoGJ4Smq3m6GpZEeXs52mWmLElNBOk1kMGYi+ooGk+3RqWnwYv1+3LQ2fY48Qjyhx+pdbMiL7r4+uESLPaFkwpEpR0qXhBEIs3QOtnDHMHrrReoXXS7Hqpvw==
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.2 ECDHE-RSA AES-256-GCM AEAD) via TCP6; 27 Nov 2020 18:45:50 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 656B32844AF7; Fri, 27 Nov 2020 13:45:49 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 13:45:49 -0500
Message-Id: <20201127184550.656B32844AF7@ary.qy>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: documenting rsync, or, what are we here for anyway? (was: Re: what is rsync)
In-Reply-To: <CAKHUCzyuRRGZX6EGaeR-Dq7n4gjsv4GfcYRYmMG15grxxRpgGA@mail.gmail.com>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Cleverness: minimal
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/Va14GV8u76PIjX4YQIFjKEGA0mQ>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 18:45:56 -0000

In article <CAKHUCzyuRRGZX6EGaeR-Dq7n4gjsv4GfcYRYmMG15grxxRpgGA@mail.gmail.com> you write:
>> standards-making organization that's trying to promote interoperability, is
>> that people who seem to be somewhat prominent in this organization are now
>> arguing that we should replace a proven standard protocol that has probably
>> hundreds of implementations, with a protocol that may be less functional,
>> is not a standard, doesn't have a published spec, and only seems to have a
>> small number of implementations.

I think we have it backwards. On today's Internet, rsync is clearly a
lot more useful than FTP. It doesn't have FTP's quaint warts (telnet
compatibility and in-line port numbers) and is better suited for large
disks and fast networks. The relative amount of traffic we see
confirms this.

This tells me not that we should stick our heads in the sand and
pretend that if FTP was state of the art in 1985 it must still be now,
but rather that since we all use rsync, it's worth at least
documenting and if possible standardizing.

I said it's not urgent because there is a lot of public documentation
and open source code that is not going away, so there is no chance
that it will become impossible or even inconvenient to use rsync, but
that also means we have a good place to start if we want to publish a
spec.

R's,
John