Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> Fri, 18 April 2014 10:12 UTC
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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:12:48 +0200
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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To: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Subject: Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
References: <CF71721A.180A9%wesley.george@twcable.com> <CABCOCHQU0H5wCei+1OROYdoMCorPLNxpmmfk4aphR9kkrv5MJw@mail.gmail.com> <534FE1C3.3070103@cisco.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20140417112406.0b7c9b70@resistor.net>
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Hi, > Hi Benoit, > At 07:14 17-04-2014, Benoit Claise wrote: >> We discussed during the milestones during one of the last plenaries. > > Yes. > >> The discussion was around: the milestones are indications and not >> deadlines. >> In Open Source project, these are deadlines. >> In the IETF, I would love to find a middle ground between the two. >> In the IETF, the only "deadlines" are the meetings, or to be more >> precise, the submission deadlines just before the meetings. > > Lisa used to send monthly progress reports. It provided some > visibility into what was happening within the area. > > A milestone can be an estimate of when X can be completed. I might > suggest one and the group decides whether everyone can target that > date and plan accordingly. There are times when deadlines may be > needed as an effort can end up in failure. > >> Exactly, and we should understand why! >> I like this tool: >> <http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/>http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/<draft-name>-timing.html >> For example: >> <http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-timing.html>http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-timing.html >> Where is the bottleneck? Is this a process issue? The >> authors/shepherd/IESG/RFC-editors? >> I don't want to finger point, but understand what we should improve. > > Let's see. :-) The shepherd write-up does not provide me with much > information. There's three years from the first -00 to the latest > version of the draft. The author activity looks okay. There is less > activity from the document shepherd (there is an explanation for > that). There was a Last Call in April 2013. The AD asked for a > revised I-D in May 2013. There was another Last Call in December > 2013. The IESG didn't like something in the draft and it took seven > months to address that. > > There's still the two and a half years. There are seven months > between the date in the charter and the first Last Call. It would > take some effort to figure out what happened during the first two > years. It looks like the working group was the bottleneck. Thanks. I'm more after analyzing trend than inspecting this particular document. For example, https://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/discusses/ doesn't look like a very long list to me. Regards, Benoit > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > . >
- "why I quit writing internet standards" George, Wes
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" David Meyer
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Alia Atlas
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Christian de Larrinaga
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Ted Lemon
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Michael Richardson
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Tim Wicinski
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Simon Pietro Romano
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" David Meyer
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dale R. Worley
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Jari Arkko
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Bjoern A. Zeeb
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Carsten Bormann
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Wesley Eddy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Yoav Nir
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Wesley Eddy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Melinda Shore
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Carsten Bormann
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Clausen
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Spencer Dawkins
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Cridland
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Thomas Nadeau
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Miles Fidelman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Yoav Nir
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" S Moonesamy
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Benoit Claise
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Douglas Otis
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Andy Bierman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Hector Santos
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… John Levine
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… Dave Crocker
- Re: DMARC not-WG, was "why I quit writing interne… Hector Santos
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Dave Crocker
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Scott Kitterman
- Re: "why I quit writing internet standards" Douglas Otis