Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"

Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> Fri, 18 April 2014 10:12 UTC

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Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 12:12:48 +0200
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
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To: S Moonesamy <sm+ietf@elandsys.com>, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, "George, Wes" <wesley.george@twcable.com>
Subject: Re: "why I quit writing internet standards"
References: <CF71721A.180A9%wesley.george@twcable.com> <CABCOCHQU0H5wCei+1OROYdoMCorPLNxpmmfk4aphR9kkrv5MJw@mail.gmail.com> <534FE1C3.3070103@cisco.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20140417112406.0b7c9b70@resistor.net>
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Hi,
> Hi Benoit,
> At 07:14 17-04-2014, Benoit Claise wrote:
>> We discussed during the milestones during one of the last plenaries.
>
> Yes.
>
>> The discussion was around: the milestones are indications and not 
>> deadlines.
>> In Open Source project, these are deadlines.
>> In the IETF, I would love to find a middle ground between the two.
>> In the IETF, the only "deadlines" are the meetings, or to be more 
>> precise, the submission deadlines just before the meetings.
>
> Lisa used to send monthly progress reports.  It provided some 
> visibility into what was happening within the area.
>
> A milestone can be an estimate of when X can be completed.  I might 
> suggest one and the group decides whether everyone can target that 
> date and plan accordingly.  There are times when deadlines may be 
> needed as an effort can end up in failure.
>
>> Exactly, and we should understand why!
>> I like this tool: 
>> <http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/>http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/<draft-name>-timing.html
>> For example: 
>> <http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-timing.html>http://www.arkko.com/tools/lifecycle/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-timing.html
>> Where is the bottleneck? Is this a process issue? The 
>> authors/shepherd/IESG/RFC-editors?
>> I don't want to finger point, but understand what we should improve.
>
> Let's see. :-)  The shepherd write-up does not provide me with much 
> information.  There's three years from the first -00 to the latest 
> version of the draft.  The author activity looks okay. There is less 
> activity from the document shepherd (there is an explanation for 
> that).  There was a Last Call in April 2013.  The AD asked for a 
> revised I-D in May 2013.  There was another Last Call in December 
> 2013.  The IESG didn't like something in the draft and it took seven 
> months to address that.
>
> There's still the two and a half years.  There are seven months 
> between the date in the charter and the first Last Call.  It would 
> take some effort to figure out what happened during the first two 
> years.  It looks like the working group was the bottleneck.
Thanks.
I'm more after analyzing trend than inspecting this particular document.
For example, https://datatracker.ietf.org/iesg/discusses/ doesn't look 
like a very long list to me.

Regards, Benoit

>
> Regards,
> S. Moonesamy
> .
>