Re: the old fellowship program, was Wow, we're famous

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 16 April 2021 22:09 UTC

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Subject: Re: the old fellowship program, was Wow, we're famous
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Cc: IETF Discuss <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <20210414185927.07A6E72E4243@ary.qy> <8ae469dd-a94e-73b5-412c-7f08730fc5e2@petit-huguenin.org> <25A6DF1D-5772-4DB9-8E0B-C549157DF666@akamai.com> <CAHw9_iKcacK-gsmL9P_yBuyeGYnB44j1=TxF=VnG3Uu65JKJcQ@mail.gmail.com> <10C5497B-FCC3-45BE-B6A7-EE3A1C1D6883@akamai.com> <f02a58f3-ff79-3f3f-fc31-7aa17f7d14aa@mtcc.com> <698cf4f7-de67-8efb-a944-b29da42dca31@network-heretics.com> <dc7ff33f-a007-7afe-7d1b-92a242b7c799@mtcc.com> <aaebce66-6318-dc16-b8b0-5a7d7e3361a3@network-heretics.com> <CAHw9_iK8vFWZ9PpYjLFLMF0KAT96WZ9tvQ0qrdi+-mW2WhjpNw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 10:09:19 +1200
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Warren, and everybody,

The material at
https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/get-started/
is only as good as we make it. If you think it could be improved, don't say it here, send concrete suggestions to the appropriate place (now support@ietf.org, I think).

   Brian


On 17-Apr-21 03:47, Warren Kumari wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 15, 2021 at 8:54 PM Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com <mailto:moore@network-heretics.com>> wrote:
> 
>     On 4/15/21 8:37 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
> 
>>>
>>>     I've found that newcomers are much more likely to be taken favorably if they're well-prepared.
>>
>>     Well, the nature of a newcomer is that they **won't** be well prepared. It's sort of the nature of the beast. 
> 
>     Disagree.   They won't know everything, of course, but if they know enough about the subject matter to clearly know what they're talking about,  they're much more likely to be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> Yup - but it's not just the subject matter, it's also some of the history/culture/etc. I *always* recommend that newcomers read the Tao (https://www.ietf.org/about/participate/tao/). It's much much less scary to participate if you have at least some vague idea how the system works. Even "silly" things like dress code (doesn't really apply any more), what the dots mean, what a blue sheet is, etc. Knowing some of this stuff makes people feel more like insiders, instead of wondering why people keep humming, or shouting "Mike!!!"
> 
>     And the problem of participants not being well-prepared isn't at all limited to newcomers to IETF.
> 
> 
> Indeed. As with any group, we have our own "culture" and clique - we have tried to make it easier for people to come in (see the Tao, Scott Bradner's Newcomer videos, Edu team, Mentors, etc). We've done more than some other groups I can think of, but it can still be intimidating.
> 
> W
> 
>  
> 
>     Keith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the
> complexities of his own making.
>   -- E. W. Dijkstra