Re: Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps]
Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> Sat, 27 December 2014 13:50 UTC
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Subject: Re: Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps]
From: Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
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Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 06:49:57 -0700
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To: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
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On Dec 26, 2014, at 5:23 PM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> wrote: > But the differences area assignments make can have effects on > the Internet that go far beyond the management/steering of the > IETF. As an example, at and before the time of RRC 1123, the > DNS was considered an application. At some point, it was > reassigned into the Internet area (I don't remember the reasons > but recall them being a little bit arbitrary). A lot of the > focus since then has been on DNS features and operations as ends > in themselves. Questions like "how will this be used", "how will > it affect users", and "what will be the implications on the > Internet's applications architecture" have sometimes (or often) > gotten lost in the process. It is also the case that there has > never been a lot of deep database expertise in the IETF, but > there has almost always been more of it among active Apps area > participants than in the Internet area and that, too, has design > consequences, especially when discussions break out about, e.g., > how far DNS-style aliases can reasonably be extended or what the > implications are of flattening a hierarchical database > architecture. Sometimes those discussions don't even happen, at > least until it is too late -- I think that is another > consequence of area choices. I find your arguments unconvincing as they relate to the reorg that's being discussed, because there are _always_ blind spots. Expecting Area Directors to be omniscient doesn't scale--there just aren't enough of us that are. That said, I think that your observation here is correct, and ought to be addressed. I just don't agree that it leads to the conclusion you drew. What you are describing here is the classic cross-area review problem. If ADs workloads allowed for it, perhaps we would do a better job at this. I can certainly imagine a change in structure where each working group has a responsible AD, but also a second AD who tries to pay attention to what the working group is doing, from a different area. What I just said isn't the actual solution, because ADs don't currently have that much bandwidth, but perhaps there's a pony in there somewhere.
- Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisation s… Brian E Carpenter
- Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation ste… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Stephen Farrell
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Eliot Lear
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Nico Williams
- Re: Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation… Ted Lemon
- Re: Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation… John Leslie
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Nico Williams
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Nico Williams
- Re: Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation… John C Klensin
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Jari Arkko
- Re: Mashing areas [Re: IETF areas re-organisation… Ted Lemon
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Pete Resnick
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Dave Crocker
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Pete Resnick
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Nico Williams
- General view of re-org proposal (was : Out-of-are… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Dave Crocker
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Nico Williams
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Nico Williams
- Re: Out-of-area ADs [Re: IETF areas re-organisati… Nico Williams
- term for 3rd RTG AD Michael Richardson
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Brian E Carpenter
- RE: term for 3rd RTG AD Adrian Farrel
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Yoav Nir
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Michael Richardson
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD John Leslie
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Brian E Carpenter
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Murray S. Kucherawy
- RE: term for 3rd RTG AD Adrian Farrel
- RE: term for 3rd RTG AD Michael StJohns
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Allison Mankin
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD joel jaeggli
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Michael Richardson
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Michael StJohns
- Re: term for 3rd RTG AD Michael Richardson
- IETF areas re-organisation steps IETF Chair
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Ted Hardie
- Re: General view of re-org proposal (was : Out-of… Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Jari Arkko
- Re: General view of re-org proposal (was : Out-of… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Jari Arkko
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Donald Eastlake
- Re: IETF areas re-organisation steps Phillip Hallam-Baker