Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations
Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net> Sat, 19 March 2016 19:46 UTC
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Subject: Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting IETF operations
To: Melinda Shore <melinda.shore@gmail.com>, ietf@ietf.org
References: <E83FC2B4-867D-44C9-AE1B-F4C414ABD041@piuha.net> <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F657DF2330@dfweml701-chm> <EDFB7D0B-2A49-46BD-A84C-0E1FA07793FA@piuha.net> <m2lh5veycu.wl%randy@psg.com> <56DD0309.9050701@gmail.com>
From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking
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Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:46:39 -0700
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On 3/6/2016 8:26 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: > If we're going to let > the market decide there's inevitably going to be some waste, > but we really have put a pile of time and effort into standardizing > things that have never seen any uptake and almost certainly > never will. That doesn't bother me that much, but what does > bother me about it is that that's one of the reasons we're slow. I'll suggest that that's not the reason we're slow. Rather, there are two other reasons: 1. When we start an effort, we do not press for demonstrated community need -- but more importantly, demonstrated community interest in /using/ the output. So the folk who work on a topic tend to have no sense of urgency. (Even when there is a claimed sense of urgency, such as for STIR, the work often is not pursued in a fashion that matches the claim, with an eye towards rapid development and deployment.) 2. The folk making IETF approvals feel an unfortunate fear of letting flawed specifications through the process, even though the fear does not produce obviously superior results. So we impose high barriers to entry and high barriers to completion. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
- Getting off Things - namely this mailing list tom p.
- Observations on (non-technical) changes affecting… Jari Arkko
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Linda Dunbar
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Jari Arkko
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Dave Cridland
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Randy Bush
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Melinda Shore
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Rich Kulawiec
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Stephen Farrell
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Randy Bush
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Security for the Internet of Things and Other Thi… Jari Arkko
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Dirk Kutscher
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Jari Arkko
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Michael Richardson
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Michael Richardson
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Carsten Bormann
- Getting on with Things Eliot Lear
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Theodore V Faber
- RE: Getting on with Things Adrian Farrel
- Re: Getting on with Things Carsten Bormann
- Re: Getting on with Things Stewart Bryant
- Re: Getting on with Things Carsten Bormann
- Re: Getting on with Things Stewart Bryant
- Re: Getting on with Things Eliot Lear
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Getting on with Things Michael Richardson
- Re: Getting on with Things Carsten Bormann
- Re: Getting on with Things Medel Ramirez
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Getting on with Things Gmail
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Livingood, Jason
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Scott Kitterman
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Eliot Lear
- Re: Security for the Internet of Things and Other… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Dave Crocker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Jari Arkko
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Charles Eckel (eckelcu)
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… l.wood
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… George Michaelson
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Eggert, Lars
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… lloyd.wood
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Eggert, Lars
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… S Moonesamy
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… S Moonesamy
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Randy Bush
- RE: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Russ White
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Melinda Shore
- Re: Observations on (non-technical) changes affec… Eliot Lear