Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need updating
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Thu, 04 June 2020 21:28 UTC
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Subject: Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need updating
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net>
Cc: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
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<E23EC459-213F-4D19-BC1B-6050EC2CB653@strayalpha.com>
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 09:28:23 +1200
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Richard, > On the UDP side, there should be no issue. Anything above UDP has to tolerate loss anyway, so there should be mechanisms that will require from corruption-treated-as-loss. That depends. If a single bit inversion can get through undetected, the application layer might never detect an anomalx. (See what I did there?) Regards Brian Carpenter On 05-Jun-20 09:18, Richard Barnes wrote: > Yeah, secure transports already consider the data from the network untrusted, including TLS and DTLS, but also IPsec/ESP, SSH, SRTP and QUIC. As long as those protocols are using reasonably modern, AEAD ciphers, the worst impact of corruption in the transport is DoS. > > That said, there might be some pretty hard crashes in cases where the security protocol relies on the transport for something.. For example, TLS doesn't have a mechanism for requesting that data be re-sent in the event of loss/corruption, because it's assumed that TCP provides that. If corruption is only detected at the TLS layer, there's not a way to recover. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if many TLS stacks close the connection on bad data anyway. > > On the UDP side, there should be no issue. Anything above UDP has to tolerate loss anyway, so there should be mechanisms that will require from corruption-treated-as-loss. > > So there may be some feedback loops to close, but that's a more limited, host-internal problem. > > In any case -- one more reason to encrypt everything! > > --Richard > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:17 PM Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net <mailto:craig@tereschau.net>> wrote: > > Ah, I somehow had missed that. > > Looks like it does the trick if we need it. Not sure if we'd have to update the optional checksum to use a new checksum too. > > Craig > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 1:33 PM Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com <mailto:touch@strayalpha..com>> wrote: > > See draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options > > > On Jun 4, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net <mailto:craig@tereschau.net>> wrote: > > > > Then there's UDP. UDP has no options. > > > > -- > ***** > Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities and mailing lists. >
- The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need … Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Joe Touch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Richard Barnes
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Richard Barnes
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Richard Barnes
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Christian Huitema
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Christian Huitema
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Joseph Touch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Stewart Bryant
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Joseph Touch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Richardson
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Masataka Ohta
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… John Levine
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Joseph Touch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Christian Huitema
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Joseph Touch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Salz, Rich
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Salz, Rich
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Richardson
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nick Hilliard
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Carsten Bormann
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nick Hilliard
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Joe Touch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nick Hilliard
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nick Hilliard
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Carsten Bormann
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… John C Klensin
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Richard Barnes
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Russ Housley
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Warren Kumari
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… John C Klensin
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Christian Huitema
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… John C Klensin
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Eric Rescorla
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Nico Williams
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… John Levine
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Warren Kumari
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… John R Levine
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… tom petch
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Salz, Rich
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Carsten Bormann
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Salz, Rich
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Craig Partridge
- Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon n… Michael Thomas