Re: Basic ietf process question ...

Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> Sun, 05 August 2012 03:06 UTC

Return-Path: <tbray@textuality.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F64121F8827 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cZVeg2Rtrrwd for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:06:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-vc0-f172.google.com (mail-vc0-f172.google.com [209.85.220.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0111A21F8810 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by vcbfo14 with SMTP id fo14so2059326vcb.31 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 20:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-originating-ip:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=3sqD9PjPfa2mLH80JyJCiqsQEzCxOHtlTAHhsajXQBQ=; b=MXaBE3WXRGyh2tMhd9orMsIFvgoiQiFIwW1BXnxZFV0g8o8hS5aaLNXRjuv0Pd2exv C5M0hEHKgQIJo7WObPXo7QDUrSUJoRT+lmgVCVT7GT7Y9twkh+Al9oHrJDWkO5k2bFQS x9H6AFGfJDLQAaotVd5Ic2wjTdx8h3C1NwOX6VmB4lArc65V1jJh6eVvoxRYmAatNaW2 Qq1RJ8r/gr9f43rTGEEp4nFyXUZ/zVaD8eVrAxZoknug9l9M4FoubnAnXB0U5qJGMngr g3om2Q/g/mRVRobMpPXddfJEdvW4/Il63qDmNqwGh+LL/Ax+tOJmu4NwfDS/tDWnjAKW cR/w==
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.220.219.129 with SMTP id hu1mr4994576vcb.72.1344135965267; Sat, 04 Aug 2012 20:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.52.113.162 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Aug 2012 20:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Originating-IP: [24.84.235.32]
In-Reply-To: <CD5674C3CD99574EBA7432465FC13C1B22726A0BF7@DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com>
References: <20120802055556.1356.17133.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CALaySJK6RE1pnk0RJZjpU8jHb9KKb3zOjGc5NqTcVyb7kTBOyw@mail.gmail.com> <CAL0qLwZaoVDtt_8o1Qr5NqG-rBk6jkAMMVT+jUUoiD2rhEvmuw@mail.gmail.com> <501AA9DF.6010208@raszuk.net> <EDC652A26FB23C4EB6384A4584434A0407E24713@307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com> <501AB4F5.7030205@raszuk.net> <501AC2C7.6040707@gmail.com> <270DDF46-AA04-49C0-B54C-35FD0AE0350F@mnot.net> <CD5674C3CD99574EBA7432465FC13C1B22726A0BF7@DC-US1MBEX4.global.avaya.com>
Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2012 20:06:05 -0700
Message-ID: <CAHBU6ivbzi7UGovxAH2WmbbajY7rmah2Gt5coX+HVLL+KFL7YA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Basic ietf process question ...
From: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
To: "Worley, Dale R (Dale)" <dworley@avaya.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQknxMWQXwTnMPViVaA+rAbwTEquK9EGwuIYuz9j34DV80/3jYM4tZa0lP/OoixAT2j8G+7P
Cc: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, "ietf@ietf.org" <ietf@ietf.org>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 03:06:07 -0000

I gave such a Sunday tutorial at IETF70.  The slides are here
(somewhat dated, but still useful I’d say):
http://www.tbray.org/tmp/IETF70.pdf

 -Tim

On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Worley, Dale R (Dale) <dworley@avaya.com> wrote:
>> From: Mark Nottingham [mnot@mnot.net]
>>
>> What surprises me and many others is that people are still using it
>> and promoting it, when it's well-understood by almost EVERYONE who was
>> involved in using XML for protocols in the past ten years agrees that
>> it's a mistake.
>
> It sounds to me like what is needed is some sort of "best common
> practices" document regarding data aggregation and encoding, or even
> perhaps an IETF Sunday tutorial.  Lots of people who are never going
> to become experts in the field need to make good choices when
> designing protocols...
>
> Dale