Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely literate minutes)
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Sun, 02 December 2012 17:19 UTC
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Message-ID: <50BB8DA8.5070406@joelhalpern.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 12:19:36 -0500
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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To: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Subject: Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely literate minutes)
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Cc: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>, Randall Gellens <randy@qti.qualcomm.com>, ietf@ietf.org
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There is another unfortunate community habit that I have noticed. It is, I believe, a consequence o their being simply too much stuff to look at. If you have a working group that is considering new ideas (looking to recharter), you are more likely to get folks to read the draft, either before or shortly after the meeting, if you get a presentation slot in the meeting. In particular, if the presentation sounds interesting, he odds of readership go up. This is not discussion. The odds of getting much discussion if the idea is competent are pretty low. (I am putting aside the useful result where the participants go to the mike and bash the idea hard. That at least is discussion, even if not the discussion the presenter wanted.) But it seems to be one of the few ways we have to get folks to pay attention. Yours, Joel On 12/2/2012 10:12 AM, Keith Moore wrote: > On 12/02/2012 10:03 AM, John C Klensin wrote: >> >> --On Sunday, December 02, 2012 09:53 -0500 Keith Moore >> <moore@network-heretics.com> wrote: >> >>> ... >>> (Another way to put is that even if we provide such cameras in >>> meetings along with colored pens and paper, we will continue >>> to see PowerPoint being used as it is today unless there's a >>> community-wide effort to change our entrenched habits.) >> Sure. But it is the now-entrenched habits that are the problem. >> The overuse of PowerPoint for purposes of which neither of us >> approve is merely a symptom, not, IMO, a cause (even if it >> reinforces the behaviors). > Agreed, though sometimes when changing habits it helps to focus > attention on the most visible or tangible part of the habit. > > It's always been possible, and will presumably remain possible, to build > small PowerPoint decks that consist of only a few diagrams, to leave > some blank slides in the middle of the deck for the purpose of typing in > comments made at meetings, etc. -- all for the purpose of facilitating > discussion. I wouldn't have a problem with PowerPoint being used in > that way, though I suspect that it will be difficult for people to > restrain themselves to using PowerPoint in that way as long as that's > the tool that they're using. >> >> Anyone for incorporating a slide (!) into the Newcomer's >> Presentation (!!) that says "a presentation in a f2f meeting >> that makes extensive use of PowerPoint decks with many and/or >> dense slides brands the presenter as either a newcomer, someone >> who is trying to avoid an actual discussion, or a fool"? :-( > Yes, but first we need to get existing WG chairs to say that to their > participants, and to push back on people who continue to do use > PowerPoint in that way in meetings. > > Keith > >
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- Re: Barely literate minutes Keith Moore
- PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely lit… Keith Moore
- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randy Bush
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Melinda Shore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… SM
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John Levine
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- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Joel M. Halpern
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- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Melinda Shore
- Presentation vs. Discussion sessions (was: PowerP… Keith Moore
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- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Melinda Shore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Keith Moore
- Acculturation [was Re: PowerPoint considered harm… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… SM
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Randy Bush
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Randy Bush
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