IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Post-Last-Call versions of documents and change logs: suggestion to the IESG

Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com> Sat, 25 June 2022 19:36 UTC

Return-Path: <moore@network-heretics.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2107C159493 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 12:36:10 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -3.783
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.783 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.876, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tdk4_CbUE9Uc for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 12:36:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.21]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A10BAC157B32 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 12:35:59 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 865BE32004ED for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 15:35:56 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sat, 25 Jun 2022 15:35:56 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:sender :subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t=1656185756; x=1656272156; bh=+ wNmsuEa+LC7YJV3vGIDSCJFvAS9wzUlv1Wq6AbIddc=; b=Z+U1I7V+BJNnH+/y3 Q5e3FRxL+U6O6kZd5V6HdOCTvdjrvwQli344yrNlB0R+io63hDiplXILykBhOpq/ 4wRJqSrtsndYz3H9NgTdE765nyNgJKgnX5JZNPhKaXbSgsVtW1zwC15y0dt8lsag 80M1/KBp8lrKoAVTKKgtTQrxVytY8N7GltEEPLXFLRfAtlmD/RFHctiNzqtiSfYC dJ4Hs4pXV22gxNge88C0DfJIgwy5jC2DPqdE/1dyMaE5tlrOX+fOJKA/lUuYESHT IJ9QKtPYDewwnMHZmcbR5qnlIyZEAtEfT92o3PSg/U1f2KvbrazNoiaXbvKe8kV0 KP5eQ==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:m2O3Ym9Dko0hKpEcqXgVMcfI0EDckvOXp2ptMXG5VpOrlKrMLmXSTw> <xme:m2O3YmuMJmRsUNnGkpgxqLAWWPyi5anTGE75bQsLQZmOcOEIN9G0WvaYiQniJj2tX MTmNnxkFcPPow>
X-ME-Received: <xmr:m2O3YsBDlnooDWQU_E5i6cM9EZAR13RXST66KvKoFhrNcm2h1MznBfkcN-vpJGizp1SZvFYKrA7UsjKcSghqjGOOumJTbLipanpm9CEhhf-wYegVnEddew>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvfedrudeguddgudegudcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvfhfhjggtgfesth ejredttdefjeenucfhrhhomhepmfgvihhthhcuofhoohhrvgcuoehmohhorhgvsehnvght fihorhhkqdhhvghrvghtihgtshdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhephfeikefgue dvgfehteettddvieevgedvuddvfeeufeeifedujeefuddvheduieeinecuvehluhhsthgv rhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhhoohhrvgesnhgvthifoh hrkhdqhhgvrhgvthhitghsrdgtohhm
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:m2O3YufEvGxbryxEtsLKfHUCXPNvCDbte33hpOpl8Y8BWYMzH0L6kA> <xmx:m2O3YrMkf_jtYQd6LAvwgp3m3uoIqq-acug4_bbo5ATib6JxiYxsKQ> <xmx:m2O3YokOBpkx8Pyfei5kxSJ5R_KpweZjJ93ewJvYyAK_jhoQEbTv_w> <xmx:nGO3YhYNGFQ17YJU0w0k1lZjRRl-LailgfthZnfUaH1XLE31seH5gQ>
Feedback-ID: i5d8c41f0:Fastmail
Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA for <ietf@ietf.org>; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 15:35:55 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <460decba-2f97-eda0-5500-3790410e02ef@network-heretics.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 15:35:54 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.9.1
Subject: Re: Post-Last-Call versions of documents and change logs: suggestion to the IESG
Content-Language: en-US
To: ietf@ietf.org
References: <ED90C87AEF388AB3BF7CABCF@PSB>
From: Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
In-Reply-To: <ED90C87AEF388AB3BF7CABCF@PSB>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/XYJOx5W4NePOBCnqgkLYIHQI6KI>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 19:36:10 -0000

Without responding to John's message point-by-point, I have long 
believed the following:

1. Documents should be frozen at Last Call time, with no updates 
permitted until IESG has voted on the document.
2. Any changes subsequently agreed to between IESG and the document 
editors should be published as a post-Last-Call I-D + diffs, along with 
explanations for the changes.
3. Those changes should be subject to community review, with the 
potential for subsequent revision before sending to the RFC Editor.
4. Similarly, any changes made by the RFC Editor should be posted as I-D 
+ diffs and subject to community review BEFORE the final RFC is published.

There's too little transparency in these late stages, and a lot of 
potential for those changes to vary significantly from community consensus.

Keith

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email