Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com> Mon, 04 March 2013 13:38 UTC
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Subject: Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director
From: Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 08:38:06 -0500
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To: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
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On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:07 AM 3/4/13, "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Mar 4, 2013, at 13:18, Eric Burger <eburger@standardstrack.com> wrote: >> I will say it again - the IETF is organized by us. Therefore, this situation is created by us. We have the power to fix it. We have to want to fix it. Saying there is nothing we can do because this is the way it is is the same as saying we do not WANT to fix it. > > what is "the fix"? I think part of the fix is to consider more than just the IESG. We need to take look at the work across the IETF that goes into producing our documents and see if we can redistribute or reduce that work to lessen the workload on ADs ... if the goal is, indeed, to reduce the time commitment on individual ADs. > > The IETF is set up so that the top level leadership requires technical expertise. It is not only a management job. This is a key differentiator to other SDOs, and IMO it shows in the quality of the output we produce. The reason the RFCs are typically of very good quality is that the same eyeballs go over all documents before they go out. But that model doesn't scale. What about, for example, ensuring the quality in the documents as they come out of the WGs?, which distributes the work rather than concentrating it in IESG? > This creates a level of uniformity that is otherwise difficult to achieve. But it requires technical expertise on the top, and it requires a significant investment of time. Agreed. > > I don't see how we can maintain the quality of our output if we turn the AD position into a management job. > Especially when technical expertise is delegated to bodies that rely on volunteers. Don't get me wrong, the work done in the various directorates is awesome, but it's often difficult to get them to apply a uniform measure when reviewing, and it's also difficult to get them to stick to deadlines. They're volunteers, after all. > > And, as Joel said earlier, unless we delegate the right to raise and clear discusses to the directorates as well, the AD still needs to be able to understand and defend a technical argument on behalf of a reviewer. If there is a controversy, the time for that involvement dwarfs the time needed for the initial review. Sure, for any specific issue. My personal experience is that I spend more time on the ordinary review processes than I do summing up the time on extra-ordinary technical arguments. > > There is no easy fix. Well, maybe the WGs could stop wanting to publish so many documents... > > Lars - Ralph
- Appointment of a Transport Area Director IETF Chair
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John C Klensin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Michael Richardson
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Randy Bush
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John Leslie
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Leaf Yeh
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Melinda Shore
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Ralph Droms
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eric Burger
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Hector Santos
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Stewart Bryant
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director John Leslie
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dale R. Worley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Loa@pi.nu
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Elwyn Davies
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Allison Mankin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Andrew Sullivan
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Randy Bush
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Scott Brim
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eliot Lear
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Mary Barnes
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Allison Mankin
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Benoit Claise
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Alia Atlas
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Benoit Claise
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Wesley Eddy
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Romascanu, Dan (Dan)
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- RE: Appointment of a Transport Area Director l.wood
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Russ Housley
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Eggert, Lars
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director PFRC - jhaas
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Bob Braden
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director t.p.
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Melinda Shore
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Carsten Bormann
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Henning Schulzrinne
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Jari Arkko
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Jari Arkko
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Michael StJohns
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Joe Touch
- How do they select people (was: Appointment of a … SM
- Re: How do they select people joel jaeggli
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director S Moonesamy
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Carsten Bormann
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Greg Shepherd
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director David Kessens
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Toerless Eckert
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Dave Crocker
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Samuel Weiler
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Sam Hartman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Margaret Wasserman
- Re: Appointment of a Transport Area Director Martin Stiemerling