Re: Why we really can't use Facebook for technical discussion.

[Keith Moore <[e-mail]>]

On 6/7/21 12:42 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote:

>> Because misandry in the service of inclusion is no vice?
>
> When (male) privilege is threatened, the reactions often look
> like (male) fragility.  One would hope to avoid zero-sum games,
> but I think one must admit the possibility that some stereotypical
> (but hardly inherent!) behaviors are at odds with inclusiveness.
> Having a particular genital configuration is not an issue.
> Interrupting and talking over others (for example) can be.

IMO the argument would be much more convincing without the cheap (and 
almost obligatory) shot of insulting people for their gender.  The 
hypocrisy of such arguments completely rids them of any credibility and 
also often distracts from the real nature of the problem.   (And it's 
certainly a violation of the IETF Guidelines for Conduct.)

Why do people sometimes talk loudly in IETF discussions?  Because 
they're frustrated, probably because they're not being heard!   At least 
half of the time this is because of other participants who are having a 
hard time seeing past their own preconceptions.   But the popular 
fashion is to blame the speaker nearly 100% of the time, even when the 
speaker is speaking clearly.   This tactic is especially common among 
those for whom the speaker's input is inconvenient.

It follows that if we want less talking loudly in IETF discussions, we 
might do well to improve the ability of IETF participants to listen.  Or 
at least we could realize that communication is a cooperative endeavor 
that requires investment on the part of both the speaker and the listeners.

Keith