From nobody Sat Aug 15 06:24:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC3B83A0E15 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.85 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.85 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.949, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8JBXEdEKUvdl for ; Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.goatley.com (www.goatley.com [198.137.202.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3110C3A0E14 for ; Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trixy.bergandi.net (cpe-76-176-14-122.san.res.rr.com [76.176.14.122]) by wwwlocal.goatley.com (PMDF V6.8 #2433) with ESMTP id <0QF30B2C4X8U51@wwwlocal.goatley.com> for ietf@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Aug 2020 08:24:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: from Dans-MacBook-Pro.local ([69.12.173.8]) by trixy.bergandi.net (PMDF V6.7-x01 #2433) with ESMTPSA id <0QF300F2EX8ANA@trixy.bergandi.net> for ietf@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:24:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net ([69.12.173.8] EXTERNAL) (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) with TLS/SSL by trixy.bergandi.net ([10.0.42.18]) (PreciseMail V3.3); Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:24:11 -0700 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 06:24:29 -0700 From: Dan Harkins Subject: Re: Terminology discussion threads In-reply-to: <20200814225218.GP92412@kduck.mit.edu> To: ietf@ietf.org Message-id: <54ac47b7-8de0-926c-c15f-5cc2f6cc9210@lounge.org> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-language: en-US Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 X-PMAS-SPF: SPF check skipped for authenticated session (recv=trixy.bergandi.net, send-ip=69.12.173.8) X-PMAS-External-Auth: 69-12-173-8.static.dsltransport.net [69.12.173.8] (EHLO Dans-MacBook-Pro.local) References: <6AA0BCBB-D95B-4036-B94D-5E79E7B94D75@ietf.org> <7ec6f897-fd3e-8a22-cf6e-ea457d745982@lounge.org> <20200814191721.GK92412@kduck.mit.edu> <20200814225218.GP92412@kduck.mit.edu> X-PMAS-Software: PreciseMail V3.3 [200813] (trixy.bergandi.net) X-PMAS-Allowed: system rule (rule allow header:X-PMAS-External noexists) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF-Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 13:24:34 -0000 On 8/14/20 3:52 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > You're quite right that "prominent" is poorly chosen; my apologies and > thank you for noting it. > > I was attempting to use it as a shorthand to convey two parallel concerns: > > - if the people who think that their leaving is noteworthy are leaving, who > else is leaving for the same reasons but not bothering to make an > announcement? > > - if the experts on a given topic (the "people who wrote the book", if you > will forgive the expression) are not in the room, how do we know that the > right people have looked at a given topic/issue/question to ensure that the > details of that topic have been fully considered? > > I do recognize that this last point bears significant similarity to your > comment about "community members whose opinions are more important than > others", but in this case I think my concerns can be characterized more as > regarding the breadth of expertise available rather than giving particular > enhanced weight to the opinions of some community members in the abstract. > The first point serves to augment the concerns, of course.   I guess while we do not believe in kings, presidents, and voting we most definitely do have a nomenklatura.   Dan. p.s. I think if you polled the lesser members of the IETF you'd find a few published authors-- i.e. "people who wrote the book."