Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities)
'Toerless Eckert' <tte@cs.fau.de> Wed, 19 April 2017 00:14 UTC
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Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 02:14:48 +0200
From: 'Toerless Eckert' <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Tobias Gondrom <tobias.gondrom@gondrom.org>
Cc: 'Bob Hinden' <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, 'Michael Richardson' <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, 'IETF' <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities)
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Which is why BC (thanks!) changed the subject of this sub-thread. But re. IAOC responsibilities: Q: Is it true that the revenue from IETF meetings does cross-fund other activities like RFC editor etc.. ? If the goal is not to create the best meeting for the folks helping in producing documents, but to attract the maximum number of attendees, then we should be clear about it. I would guess 50% of participants are consuming only. These folks are certainly well served through death by powerpoint rich dog & pony shows (just me guessing what i like myself when i go to a WG where i just want to learn). If we focus on work instead of education and we loose participants and therefore money... Oh well, then the optimum IETF meeting structure seems to be difficult to define. Toerless On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 01:53:38AM +0200, Tobias Gondrom wrote: > <IAOC hat = "off"> > Ps.: and I would like to add that at least in my personal understanding the content and format of the WG meetings is under the mandate of the WG chairs, the IESG and IETF chair. Same like the IETF meeting agenda is also not set by the IAOC. Of course the IAOC could (and I assume would be happy to) include questions from the IESG into the usual meeting survey, but I don't think it is the IAOC's place to discuss the content or how many Powerpoints are used within the WG meeting. IMHO that is for WG chairs and IESG to decide. And with these expectations, it is the IAOC task to arrange for an environment that is supporting to fulfill the expectations from the WG chairs, IETF and the IESG. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:09 AM > To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> > Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; IETF <ietf@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting cities) > > Toerless, > > Responding with this thread as it???s not about meeting locations. > > > On Apr 18, 2017, at 2:34 PM, Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> wrote: > > > > Hiya, > > > > On 18/04/17 22:22, Toerless Eckert wrote: > >> For example, there is a lot of death by powerpoint in meetings that > >> pushes off high bandwidth discussions ("oh, we're out of time"). > >> AFAIK, most active work on drafts during IETF meeting week happens > >> outside of the WG meetings. I think that > >> a) was not the original plan, and b) i have not seen IAOC sending > >> around questionaires what/how to improve the quality of the meetings in this respect. > > Regarding powerpoint, the problem isn't the use of slides, it the w.g., chairs not dealing with presenters who shows up with 20 slides for a 10 minutes slot, and the chairs not allocating enough time for a real discussions. > > I think the meetings would be a lot more productive if a w.g. could have a meeting at the start of the week, work on the the issues during the week, send updates to the mailing list, have email and face to face discussions, and then have a second session at the end of the week to get consensus. Clearly, impossible to schedule this with our current number of working groups, but I think it would make for a more productive week. > > Bob
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Carsten Bormann
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Dave Crocker
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Loa Andersson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … John Leslie
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Ted Lemon
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … joel jaeggli
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michal Krsek
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … nalini.elkins
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Stewart Bryant
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Fernando Gont
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michal Krsek
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Dave Crocker
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Fernando Gont
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Christian Hopps
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … nalini.elkins
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Stephen Farrell
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Brian E Carpenter
- Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAOC re… Stephen Farrell
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Toerless Eckert
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAO… 'Toerless Eckert'
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAO… Bob Hinden
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAO… Toerless Eckert
- RE: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAO… Tobias Gondrom
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Dave Crocker
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Ted Lemon
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Aaron Falk
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Dave Crocker
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks joel jaeggli
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Eliot Lear
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks joel jaeggli
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks Dave Crocker
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Joel M. Halpern
- Re: Structure of IETF meeting weeks (was: Re: IAO… Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Eliot Lear
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Laurent Ciavaglia
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Bob Hinden
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Randy Bush
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Eliot Lear
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … tom p.
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Paul Wouters
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Ross Finlayson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Stewart Bryant
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Adrian Farrel
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Christian Huitema
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Sarah B
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … tom p.
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Nico Williams
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Andrew Newton
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Nico Williams
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Stephen Farrell
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Jared Mauch
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Andrew Newton
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Yoav Nir
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Carsten Bormann
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Eliot Lear
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Nico Williams
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Nico Williams
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Jared Mauch
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Melinda Shore
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … mike stJohns
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Andrew G. Malis
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Melinda Shore
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … james woodyatt
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … John Levine
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Jared Mauch
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Eliot Lear
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Carsten Bormann
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Christer Holmberg
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Dick Franks
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Carsten Bormann
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Stewart Bryant
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Rich Kulawiec
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael Richardson
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … mike stJohns
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael StJohns
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Bob Hinden
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Michael StJohns
- RE: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Andrew Allen
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Benjamin Damm
- Re: IAOC requesting input on (potential) meeting … Nico Williams
- Re: [IAOC] IAOC requesting input on (potential) m… Leslie Daigle