Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need updating

Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net> Thu, 04 June 2020 21:26 UTC

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From: Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net>
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 15:26:17 -0600
Message-ID: <CAHQj4Cem6YdTXKFPW6Mk6gK9Yt_2qD=M7PAE6nxFEdJrD==ZVA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The TCP and UDP checksum algorithm may soon need updating
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
Cc: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
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The SSH spec says terminate on failure and that it requires a reliable
underpinning.

Termination on error is no good.  One of the studies shows huge failure
rates (over 50%) for large file transfers.  One guess is that's due to
security protocols terminating when TCP hands up something with an error.

Craig

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 3:19 PM Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:

> Yeah, secure transports already consider the data from the network
> untrusted, including TLS and DTLS, but also IPsec/ESP, SSH, SRTP and QUIC.
> As long as those protocols are using reasonably modern, AEAD ciphers, the
> worst impact of corruption in the transport is DoS.
>
> That said, there might be some pretty hard crashes in cases where the
> security protocol relies on the transport for something.  For example, TLS
> doesn't have a mechanism for requesting that data be re-sent in the event
> of loss/corruption, because it's assumed that TCP provides that.  If
> corruption is only detected at the TLS layer, there's not a way to
> recover.  That said, I wouldn't be surprised if many TLS stacks close the
> connection on bad data anyway.
>
> On the UDP side, there should be no issue.  Anything above UDP has to
> tolerate loss anyway, so there should be mechanisms that will require from
> corruption-treated-as-loss.
>
> So there may be some feedback loops to close, but that's a more limited,
> host-internal problem.
>
> In any case -- one more reason to encrypt everything!
>
> --Richard
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:17 PM Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Ah, I somehow had missed that.
>>
>> Looks like it does the trick if we need it. Not sure if we'd have to
>> update the optional checksum to use a new checksum too.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 1:33 PM Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com
>> <touch@strayalpha..com>> wrote:
>>
>>> See draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options
>>>
>>> > On Jun 4, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Craig Partridge <craig@tereschau.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Then there's UDP.  UDP has no options.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *****
>> Craig Partridge's email account for professional society activities and
>> mailing lists.
>>
>

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