Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techno.cat@gmail.com
"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Sat, 26 October 2013 02:40 UTC
Return-Path: <prvs=0004b5043f=johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7EFB11E8127 for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 19:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.75
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.75 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.640, BAYES_05=-1.11]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Fi8g9tt9iDY for <ietf@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 19:40:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from leila.iecc.com (leila6.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:4c:6569:6c61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A1D011E80E6 for <ietf@ietf.org>; Fri, 25 Oct 2013 19:40:27 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (qmail 70398 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2013 02:40:26 -0000
Received: from leila.iecc.com (64.57.183.34) by mail1.iecc.com with QMQP; 26 Oct 2013 02:40:26 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=526b2b9a.xn--btvx9d.k1310; i=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=7alfuSO/V3yXZG9RMd+4t+pu8u6/QDlOHvkZXsqCWzw=; b=DYGi/QhhFQZ8o8avP/KMVWoRrokX+9zSOVrQcwM5+Sk1EU4A6z70adDY27tebh+4YkuW2yTl29Dbd3TBu4Bh1NP2GnsOQ0b/gpkA7Zgf6UL1LgaLtWLoN8Dw2NmlsyyBhSe7DGKphynHhOpNaVsWdVaWaIgl/TT371BS+zvratAA6U3oqvWRNfvcjzaASsRioOgWP13RC865a3YB8OKtYcoLrwXnt/yhhs0dgPB1XC/v8Ak/5pCV1/mlPKRsyjZk
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=526b2b9a.xn--btvx9d.k1310; olt=johnl@user.iecc.com; bh=7alfuSO/V3yXZG9RMd+4t+pu8u6/QDlOHvkZXsqCWzw=; b=Bwwhbbx/YpO2UU2fJYpSXMeMgu5LNxY+UQdSuDaqi2FQ5CGRtl2yLRsGw/s7w7gdw/5RaEFClXK/h/w/LGuNMSsUMDOLOVk7ilwl9J+WTmgHCFgphKKXwswMoZxFmVTooK4UJkdxFHf/Ni5vDp7YfuI5EO4+p7et0pswl9guIwEAxDDrwLZ2ZocmL3kSNccEXhWSr/tEKkjq0PvwEioJ2w+NyJSXPBWF0jlUhGyWGT4jyUiCez6eWZcW9yh86UPE
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:40:04 -0000
Message-ID: <20131026024004.3506.qmail@joyce.lan>
From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techno.cat@gmail.com
In-Reply-To: <01OZZW7T12OY00004R@mauve.mrochek.com>
Organization:
X-Headerized: yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Cc: ned+ietf@mauve.mrochek.com
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 02:40:32 -0000
>> the chilling effect of vigilateism is far worse than spam or trolls. ... >I could not agree more. By condoning such measures people are damaging the >diversity they are supposedly trying to support. I could not disagree more. The spam and trolling create an unpleasant environment that drives people away. Anyone who's run mailing lists for a while has seen this pattern over and over, in which a tiny group (sometimes just one) of obnoxious subscribers ruins a list and most of the useful members leave. The ones who remain are thick skinned or socially oblivious, and are disproportionately middle aged North American white guys who acted like this when they were undergrads. We are all big boys and girls here. It should be entirely within our abilities to be reasonably polite and relevant in our correspondence. In this particular case, the execution was clumsy, but the action was entirely appropriate. We saw messages that were utterly irrelevant, from an address that had never sent anything else, in a style that strongly suggested it was a sock for a chronic troublemaker. Why should we put up with that kind of nonsense? I also have to laugh at "vigilanteism." There is no government process that vigilantes are circumventing; the sergeant at arms kicking people off the list IS the process. A useful kind of vigilanteism is private messages to people encouraging them not to engage with trolls, or to back off when they're getting too abrasive. I have received both, and I appreciate that people have taken the effort to give me a nudge. R's, John
- Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techno.ca… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Techno CAT
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Donald Eastlake
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Anonymous postings SM
- RE: Anonymous postings l.wood
- Re: Anonymous postings Melinda Shore
- Re: Anonymous postings Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Anonymous postings Melinda Shore
- RE: Anonymous postings SM
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Randy Bush
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Dave Crocker
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Barry Leiba
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Randy Bush
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Melinda Shore
- IETF::ISOC (was Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal… Dave Crocker
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… John C Klensin
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Randy Bush
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Scott Brim
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Ted Lemon
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with [censored] SM
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Jari Arkko
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Melinda Shore
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Melinda Shore
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Randy Bush
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Thomas Narten
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Ted Lemon
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Ted Lemon
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… John C Klensin
- RE: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… l.wood
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- RE: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Christian Huitema
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… joel jaeggli
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Melinda Shore
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with [censored] SM
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with [censored] Jorge Amodio
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Scott Brim
- RE: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Richard Shockey
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Ted Lemon
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Randy Bush
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Dave Crocker
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Douglas Otis
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… ned+ietf
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… John Levine
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Jorge Amodio
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Jorge Amodio
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Melinda Shore
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… David Conrad
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Roger Jørgensen
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Jorge Amodio
- On anonymity.... (was: Sergeant at arms: please d… Olaf Kolkman
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Douglas Otis
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Dan Harkins
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… TSG - personal
- Re: Sergeant at arms: please deal with mars.techn… Ted Lemon