Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=Apple-Mail-D312CF00-870B-46E8-A46F-25B8BAE795AD
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: Re: Names on blue sheets
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2025 07:17:26 +1000
Message-Id: <8B69ABF5-F1A6-4688-A31D-55AE17FCBF9E@isc.org>
References: 
 <CAKr6gn3NJwgMx3DJ8RxuOM3qQiYMu0JZMQMPkFaVwZiCJdWgTA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: 
 <CAKr6gn3NJwgMx3DJ8RxuOM3qQiYMu0JZMQMPkFaVwZiCJdWgTA@mail.gmail.com>
To: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Message-ID-Hash: H7GUI52KJEG55S4GNHTDNOIRZTAWLRJZ
CC: ietf@ietf.org
Precedence: list
Archived-At: 
 <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/_Lb3SdqmEtiBtJyq72dLMNg98mE>


--Apple-Mail-D312CF00-870B-46E8-A46F-25B8BAE795AD
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Blue sheets serve multiple purposes. &nbsp;=
Room sizing is just one of them. &nbsp;Intellectual property issues is anoth=
er part of their use.<div><br></div><div>It is my understanding that the blu=
e sheets have been subpoenaed in the past to determine who was present in th=
e room.</div><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">--&nbsp;<div>Mark Andrews</div></div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On 16 Apr 2025, at 07:06, Ge=
orge Michaelson &lt;ggm@algebras.org&gt; wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF<div dir=3D"auto">Purely a=
s a point of information for a very long time we were told blue sheets were f=
or room sizing and no one cared about the name.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">Meetecho logins manage queues and would provide a record of=
 participation as a similar quality in my personal opinion.</div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">We also historically ha=
d complaints with people taking photos of blue sheets.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I can't speak to current motivations or practi=
ce.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Cheers</div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">George (in a personal capacity)</div></di=
v></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, 16 Apr 2025, 6:38=E2=80=AFam S Moonesamy, &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:sm%2Bietf@elandsys.com">sm+ietf@elandsys.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Rob,<br>
At 11:40 AM 15-04-2025, Rob Sayre wrote:<br>
&gt;I noticed some extremely brief names on the blue sheets from IETF <br>
&gt;122. That led me to question what purpose these forms serve. I asked <br=
>
&gt;a bit, and was told it was a matter for the LLC. I don't know where <br>=

&gt;to ask, so it's here.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;I'll use my own name as an example. What is OK on a blue sheet?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;Robert F. Sayre<br>
&gt;Robert Sayre<br>
&gt;Rob Sayre<br>
&gt;Rob S &lt;--- I saw these<br>
&gt;RS<br>
&gt;R<br>
&gt;Rob da MC<br>
&gt;...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;If we allow all of these, what is the point?<br>
<br>
The rule is that the Chair and/or Secretary must ensure that minutes <br>
of a session are taken and that an attendance list is <br>
circulated.&nbsp; The attendance list used to be referred to as "blue <br>
sheets" because of the color of the sheets of paper.&nbsp; It is viewed as <=
br>
good practice in other venues to have a list of persons who attended <br>
a meeting.&nbsp; It may be the same for meetings held within the context <br=
>
of the "standards process".<br>
<br>
The practice at IETF meetings was to disclose name and <br>
affiliation.&nbsp; I assume that it was about openness (BCP 9).&nbsp; The <b=
r>
affiliation part could be about not having to formalize "balance".<br>
<br>
I noticed that some attendees did not disclose name or <br>
affiliation.&nbsp; A meeting would not look like a serious activity if the <=
br>
information in attendance list is opaque.&nbsp; There may have been some <br=
>
assumption which led to the practice of disclosing name and <br>
affiliation, i.e. there was no need to write a "best current <br>
practice" to explain to an attendee how to write his/her name.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
S. Moonesamy&nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-D312CF00-870B-46E8-A46F-25B8BAE795AD--