Re: [Manycouches] Think outside the box - Re: Want to be on the IESG?

Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de> Wed, 13 October 2021 15:49 UTC

Return-Path: <eckert@i4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
X-Original-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ietf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D373A0BA9; Wed, 13 Oct 2021 08:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.119
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oFldTR9APM0c; Wed, 13 Oct 2021 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4E9D3A0BA6; Wed, 13 Oct 2021 08:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:51]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAD3754805F; Wed, 13 Oct 2021 17:49:32 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id A15F14E9AB0; Wed, 13 Oct 2021 17:49:32 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2021 17:49:32 +0200
From: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>
To: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
Cc: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz=40akamai.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>, manycouches@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Manycouches] Think outside the box - Re: Want to be on the IESG?
Message-ID: <YWcADO8Y+kiHwier@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
References: <BA76D727-D0C8-4EF9-B419-E6811A86759E@akamai.com> <249C4257-5C9F-4864-A581-F1B6ACEB7DF1@tzi.org> <2F9BCC99F44844A98FE6F7D7@PSB> <CAKKJt-fMbG2KygEr=H3-jYv1+0y8qmHGf0zOUJ3w6WFhQ1=JyQ@mail.gmail.com> <5AD6F8A8F4DB29107AB17A04@PSB> <62FDD7B7-B23B-481D-BA48-0E179790F03A@tzi.org> <AA7C39F28F98420C40DE4442@PSB> <F4275D2E-F678-4D15-8F3D-FE3538BE7456@akamai.com> <YWbzLTWByJlJpksc@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <bf7e6b7d-aa23-3b11-aa6e-f8e7ac8ba110@cs.tcd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <bf7e6b7d-aa23-3b11-aa6e-f8e7ac8ba110@cs.tcd.ie>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/_Q5vgII5Id_rfL0VNtVIbIom20w>
X-BeenThere: ietf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF-Discussion <ietf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ietf/>
List-Post: <mailto:ietf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>, <mailto:ietf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2021 15:49:40 -0000

Thanks, Stephen. I guess i was referring to 
"act outside the box" and not only "think outside the box".
And i do think it may be easier to do that when you actually
do come from outside the box.

Cheers
    Toerless

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 04:27:59PM +0100, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> 
> On 13/10/2021 15:54, Toerless Eckert wrote:
> > manycouches had many couch potatoes arguing for many many years to
> > have at least one virtual-only IETF per year, even if just as an
> > experiment. I do not remember a single AD thinking outside of a box
> > to push for such an experiment.
> 
> I don't think that's accurate. It's fair to say that
> we didn't make real progress on attempting to only
> meet twice in any year before covid, but there were
> a bunch of ADs among those considering the issues,
> (incl. me back then.) Just because the IESG doesn't
> manage to succeed in figuring stuff out does not mean
> that the IESG didn't try so I'd cut the current leadership
> some slack before accusing them of being unable to
> think outside whatever boxes are perceived to exist.
> 
> S.