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From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com>
To: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>, IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)
Thread-Topic: legal consultation (was List moderator action)
Thread-Index: AQHc3wzwjSKkcZn8wk2R6avGAckUkrYEXala
Date: Fri, 8 May 2026 17:30:22 +0000
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I see that as a feature because if it an ID within datatracker then it is p=
ossible that someone may just take ideas from it, particularly because we n=
ow keep expired drafts around forever.

Further, I suspect that the chance that the reader would spot the no deriva=
tives is probably close to zero.  I mean, do you ever check that boilerplat=
e when reading an ID, or do you just assume that you know what it says and =
skip over it and go to the actual substance of the doc?

To me, keeping it feels like we are just leaving a legal bear trap in < 0.1=
% of drafts/RFCs to catch out the unwary.  And this is why I am so opposed =
to Daniel including the boiler plate in emails.  Generally, I do not bother=
 reading boilerplate, so it creates an unfriendly and unnecessary legal tra=
p for the unwary for which the simplest and safest solution is arguably to =
just delete any emails from, or in reply to, Daniel.  But I would of course=
 much prefer that Daniel just participates without including it.

Kind regards,
Rob


From: Rob Sayre <sayrer@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, 8 May 2026 at 18:05
To: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>; Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cis=
co.com>
Subject: Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)

"Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton@cisco.com<mailto:rwilton@cisco.com>>:
> I think that I'm with the John Levine solution for this one.  Just stick =
the draft/idea on github and don't publish it to IETF as an ID.

I wish it were so, but I think we need these for the meeting minutes, even =
if the work is not adopted.

thanks,
Rob


--_000_LV8PR11MB8536ED812560688150D893EBB53D2LV8PR11MB8536namp_
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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
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</head>
<body>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I see that as a feature because if it an ID within datatracker then it is p=
ossible that someone may just take ideas from it, particularly because we n=
ow keep expired drafts around forever.</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Further, I suspect that the chance that the reader would spot the no deriva=
tives is probably close to zero. &nbsp;I mean, do you ever check that boile=
rplate when reading an ID, or do you just assume that you know what it says=
 and skip over it and go to the actual
 substance of the doc?</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
To me, keeping it feels like we are just leaving a legal bear trap in &lt; =
0.1% of drafts/RFCs to catch out the unwary. &nbsp;And this is why I am so =
opposed to Daniel including the boiler plate in emails. &nbsp;Generally, I =
do not bother reading boilerplate, so it creates
 an unfriendly and unnecessary legal trap for the unwary for which the simp=
lest and safest solution is arguably to just delete any emails from, or in =
reply to, Daniel. &nbsp;But I would of course much prefer that Daniel just =
participates without including it.</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Kind regards,</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Rob</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
</div>
<div style=3D"padding: 3pt 0in 0in; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border=
-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor curr=
entcolor;">
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"te=
xt-align: left; font-family: Aptos; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">
<b>From: </b>Rob Sayre &lt;sayrer@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 8 May 2026 at 18:05<br>
<b>To: </b>IETF discussion list &lt;ietf@ietf.org&gt;; Rob Wilton (rwilton)=
 &lt;rwilton@cisco.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: legal consultation (was List moderator action)<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
&quot;Rob Wilton (rwilton)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rwilton@cisco.com" d=
ata-outlook-id=3D"9a3cc32e-376e-478a-8a89-0b418b1cc74b">rwilton@cisco.com</=
a>&gt;:</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
&gt;&nbsp;I think that I'm with the John Levine solution for this one.&nbsp=
; Just stick the draft/idea on github and don't publish it to IETF as an ID=
.</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
I wish it were so, but I think we need these for the meeting minutes, even =
if the work is not adopted.</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
thanks,</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
Rob</div>
<div class=3D"ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing" style=3D"di=
rection: ltr;">
<br>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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