Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely literate minutes)
John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com> Sun, 02 December 2012 17:50 UTC
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Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 12:50:09 -0500
From: John C Klensin <john-ietf@jck.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Keith Moore <moore@network-heretics.com>
Subject: Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely literate minutes)
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Cc: Randall Gellens <randy@qti.qualcomm.com>, ietf@ietf.org
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--On Sunday, December 02, 2012 12:19 -0500 "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote: > There is another unfortunate community habit that I have > noticed. > It is, I believe, a consequence o their being simply too much > stuff to look at. Of course, having too much stuff to look at is ultimately a consequence of the inability of the Steering Group to prioritize and structure work enough (even if it means saying "no" to reasonable, but less-important, proposals) that the number of things people (and they) have to look at bears a reasonable relationship to available time and resources. That really fundamental problem is one that restrictions on PowerPoint or presentations, or even ideas about how to fast-track some work, are not going to fix. In fairness to the IESG, it is also impossible for them to fix unless the community is willing to support their saying "no" or "insufficient resources" to some proposals for WGs or for work within WGs. But, as long as they simply accept almost all proposals that "someone wants to work on" and that are not obviously technically stupid, there is no chance of knowing whether the community would support pushing back on lower-priority work. > If you have a working group that is considering new ideas > (looking to recharter), you are more likely to get folks to > read the draft, either before or shortly after the meeting, if > you get a presentation slot in the meeting. In particular, if > the presentation sounds interesting, he odds of readership go > up. >... Yes, but see above. best, john
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- Barely literate minutes (was: "IETF work is done … SM
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- Re: Barely literate minutes Peter Saint-Andre
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- Re: Barely literate minutes SM
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- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" Geoff Huston
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- RE: Barely literate minutes Hutton, Andrew
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- Re: Barely literate minutes Barry Leiba
- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: "IETF work is done on the mailing lists" SM
- RE: Barely literate minutes Lee Howard
- Re: Barely literate minutes Randy Bush
- Re: Barely literate minutes Pete Resnick
- Re: Barely literate minutes Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Barely literate minutes Fernando Gont
- Re: Barely literate minutes Keith Moore
- PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely lit… Keith Moore
- Re: Barely literate minutes Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randy Bush
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Melinda Shore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… SM
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John Levine
- English spoken here (was: PowerPoint considered h… SM
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… John C Klensin
- Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken here) Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… John C Klensin
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Dave Crocker
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Melinda Shore
- Presentation vs. Discussion sessions (was: PowerP… Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Melinda Shore
- Re: PowerPoint considered harmful (was Re: Barely… Randall Gellens
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Keith Moore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Melinda Shore
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions Keith Moore
- Acculturation [was Re: PowerPoint considered harm… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… SM
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Randy Bush
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Randy Bush
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… joel jaeggli
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Dave Crocker
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Melinda Shore
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- RE: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… George, Wes
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- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Tim Chown
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Keith Moore
- Re: English spoken here (was: PowerPoint consider… Steven Bellovin
- Re: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Tony Hansen
- RE: Useful slide tex (was - Re: English spoken he… Lee Howard
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- Re: English spoken here John C Klensin
- Re: Presentation vs. Discussion sessions (was: Po… Randall Gellens