Re: "professional" in an IETF context
Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> Tue, 02 November 2021 16:21 UTC
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Subject: Re: "professional" in an IETF context
Cc: IETF discussion list <ietf@ietf.org>
References: <8F4B97EA-665F-4A59-B99D-791B4AB9F2F7@yahoo.co.uk> <746C1453-FFB0-46E5-ABF2-8630DC23B959@network-heretics.com> <c3e9fe1b-8e48-a364-9e25-4084dac70889@meetinghouse.net> <3a6bf8ad-5492-0942-a451-6317e8a93705@network-heretics.com> <59c1102c-621c-f454-1265-06285c44ffe0@gmail.com> <e668891e-6426-83c8-3900-558e29469b7a@network-heretics.com> <CADnDZ8-dFYDQqa7vpBVajRWw13PG7i7M1E+s0QhCWyAVEvpqVw@mail.gmail.com> <2841d865-901d-4dc1-d254-ba6e1f0b8c17@meetinghouse.net> <CADnDZ8_Sgvs4HUgKVHWwXmUTX5WKV6jpni-t-xjKvkZ6iokoRQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2021 12:20:15 -0400
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Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 4:08 PM Miles Fidelman > <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net <mailto:mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>> wrote: > > Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 31, 2021 at 11:13 PM Keith Moore >> <moore@network-heretics.com <mailto:moore@network-heretics.com>> >> wrote: >> >> On 10/31/21 3:34 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> >> > I repeat my suggestion that s/unprofessional/uncivil/ would >> fix the >> > document under discussion. >> >> Perhaps it would. And all other things being equal, a >> simpler fix is >> attractive. But I don't know why others seem to insist on >> "professional". >> >> >> The reason mybe that it is thought that only who authors an RFC >> is professional. >> As years while checking in IETF context, it is seen some new >> people IETF motivation can be heard that 'you should write an >> RFC', but maybe a better motivation is 'you should work/discuss >> with one WG together regarding one milestone for progress. >> If the word 'professional' makes confusion it is better to change >> it, or define it in the document. >> I totally agree with the definition give by Keith, which is in >> the beginning of thread, so please add it to the draft. >> >> > Is that really true, though? We certainly have a lot of > protocols, written by amateurs - some of which have ignored RFCs > and led to their own standards processes. Are there not RFCs > similarly written by folks with limited experience? Or is it that > "unprofessional" RFCs don't make it past the RFC editorial process? > > > It is true. We all know what we have and what we don't have, but we > always want/need better. > > AB Might I ask what "it" you're referring to? > > > Miles Fidelman > > -- > In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. > In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra > > not true, > > Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. > Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. > In our lab, theory and practice are combined: > nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown > > not true, > > We only find truth by good discussions and respecting each other, > because God is truth and he only guides to the truth. -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown
- Re: [Gendispatch] Last Call: <draft-eggert-bcp45b… Lloyd W
- Re: [Gendispatch] Last Call: <draft-eggert-bcp45b… Lars Eggert
- Re: [Gendispatch] Last Call: <draft-eggert-bcp45b… Barry Leiba
- Re: [Gendispatch] Last Call: <draft-eggert-bcp45b… Bron Gondwana
- RE: [Gendispatch] Last Call: <draft-eggert-bcp45b… STARK, BARBARA H
- Describing which behavior is appropriate or not (… S Moonesamy
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Marc Petit-Huguenin
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Lloyd W
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Lloyd W
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Sander Steffann
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… S Moonesamy
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Lloyd W
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Lloyd W
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Miles Fidelman
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… S Moonesamy
- "professional" in an IETF context Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… S Moonesamy
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Keith Moore
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Stephen Farrell
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context David Farmer
- RE: "professional" in an IETF context Andrew Campling
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Jay Daley
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Stephen Farrell
- RE: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Masataka Ohta
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Miles Fidelman
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Miles Fidelman
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Masataka Ohta
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Joel M. Halpern
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Masataka Ohta
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Stewart Bryant
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Keith Moore
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Keith Moore
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Miles Fidelman
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Miles Fidelman
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Miles Fidelman
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Stewart Bryant
- It's a trap (Re: "professional" in an IETF contex… Carsten Bormann
- Relitigating history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Scott Bradner
- Re: It's a trap (Re: "professional" in an IETF co… Lloyd W
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Miles Fidelman
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Masataka Ohta
- RE: "professional" in an IETF context Vasilenko Eduard
- interface ID (was Re: "professional" in an IETF c… Masataka Ohta
- Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IETF c… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Stewart Bryant
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Scott O. Bradner
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… tom petch
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Ancient history (was Accurate history was [Re… Eliot Lear
- Re: Ancient history (was Accurate history was [Re… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Bron Gondwana
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Ancient history (was Accurate … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: "professional" in an IETF context Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: "professional" in an IETF context Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… tom petch
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Greg Shepherd
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Nick Hilliard
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Bron Gondwana
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Bron Gondwana
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Phillip Hallam-Baker
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Scott Bradner
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… otroan
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Nick Hilliard
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Nick Hilliard
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Stewart Bryant
- Why IPv6 failed [Re: Accurate history [Re: "profe… otroan
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… S Moonesamy
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… S Moonesamy
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… S Moonesamy
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Geoff Huston
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Erik Kline
- RE: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: Accurate history [Re: "professional" in an IE… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Keith Moore
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: Describing which behavior is appropriate or n… ned+ietf